Reply With QuoteGuys , do you have clear pics of the UAE's 16 meters donated speed-boats to the LN????
Articles
A Fair Fight for Lebanon’s Army
By NYTimes
Jun 18, 2008 - 1:39:08 AM
IN the wake of a narrowly averted civil war here last month, the United States now has a unique opportunity to help build something that all the parties to the conflict have said they very much want: a strong Lebanese Armed Forces.
Unfortunately, even though the Bush administration has provided more than $300 million in tactical aid to Lebanon since the Syrian withdrawal of 2005, it still apparently refuses to provide the kind of strategic weapons — guided rockets, tanks, modern artillery and intelligence-gathering equipment — that are desperately needed in this task. During her visit to Beirut this week, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice didn’t even mention the issue.
The reason for this, American and Lebanese officials say privately, is a longstanding prohibition against supplying Lebanese forces with advanced equipment that could be used against Israel.
This “red line” remains even though Hezbollah has far more dangerous weaponry, and despite Washington’s commitment to build up the authority of the state. It is a testament to how short-sighted and contradictory the American approach to Lebanon has been.
Indeed, last month in Beirut, the army was left without the equipment that would have enabled it to be a more forceful mediator in the street battles involving Hezbollah and its rivals.
The lack of equipment also contributed to the military’s inability last summer to quickly roust a group of Islamist militants from a Palestinian refugee camp in northern Lebanon. Late in that conflict, the United Arab Emirates donated advanced Gazelle helicopters to Lebanon, but Washington required all advanced rocketry to be removed before shipment. As a result, soldiers were forced to drop shells from the helicopters by hand, destroying much of the camp, when they might have been able to pinpoint the Islamist fighters.
Moreover, when Russia stepped in to offer the Lebanese military essentially anything it wanted, free of charge, according to one former military official involved in the discussions, the Bush administration prohibited the Lebanese government from accepting the offer.
Thankfully, the United States now has an opportunity to right some of the wrongs of the past, and in the process help draw a peaceful roadmap for Hezbollah’s eventual normalization.
The violence in Beirut seems to have reduced support for Hezbollah among some Lebanese, as well as demonstrated just how much the group needs the Lebanese Armed Forces. In fact, without the military, Hezbollah would have been left with the unsavory option of pursuing a Hamas-style takeover of Lebanon in full, something it clearly did not want.
In the end, the presence of the armed forces afforded Hezbollah and its rivals a way to quickly withdraw, clearing the way for negotiations that led to the installation of a president and should shortly lead to a new national unity government.
Hezbollah’s reduced popularity and its reliance on the army set an ideal foundation for the most important task facing the new government: creating a credible defense plan. Give the Lebanese an army able to meet the perceived threats emanating from Israel (primarily involving water, territory and a possible future expulsion of Palestinians to Lebanon), and then, Hezbollah has said, its independent weaponry can be tackled.
Encouraging this dynamic should be at the top of the American agenda in Lebanon, especially since the two primary disputes between Hezbollah and Israel (the status of Shebaa Farms and a prisoner exchange) appear on the verge of a resolution — thus further undercutting Hezbollah’s rationale for bearing arms.
This necessarily means accepting a strong force arrayed defensively against Israel. But ultimately the United States would do far better for Lebanon and its own interests by allowing the country’s military to get what it needs, rather than leaving the field open to Hezbollah.
Nicholas Noe is the editor in chief of Mideastwire.com and the editor of “Voice of Hezbollah: The Statements of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.”
http://www.lebanese-forces.org/artic..._printer.shtml
Guys , do you have clear pics of the UAE's 16 meters donated speed-boats to the LN????
This?Originally Posted by Gringo_lb
I beleive this is the 12 m version, anyway thks for the pic!
no this is the 12 meter boats
in this video you can see at 1:01 sec the 12 and 16 meter boats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IvG1N1hs6Y
Thks z973 and Zaher
in the photo of yesterday tabarja boat you can see the position of the two boats as in the video
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...9&d=1213711586
Dream
Nshallah our dream of a real strong and technical advanced army will come true...If we look at the situation it is quite bad we are geting donations which is good and we should be thankful.But we are in need of the weapons which no country would donate even if everybody gets the green light for selling all weapons to lebanon(which happens only with peace agreement with israel)we dont have the money to buy and maintain the weapons.Switzerland only has 33 f-18 hornets but now the government will spend 2 billion on maintaining the jets!This maintainance should also be considered.
Anyway hopefully lebanon will rise up and be rich
Terrorists
Another Topic! Did you read about the big numbers of terrorists that are crossing the sirian border to lebanon!I fear a new war with the extremists which are not only in nahr al bared but in the rest of our country too. The army cant win a bigger war than the bared.Or do you think it can?
Whatever will happen now will be different than Naher el Bared in a way that the army will be in a better situation. I think this for the following reasons for partial failure in the previous battle of Naher el Bared:
- Naher el bared was a surprise for the army.
- The army, before Naher el Bared, did not engage in real battles of that type.
- There was no knowledge of Naher el Bared in terms of structure, FI members numbers and the secrets.
- No destructive weapons were available during most of the battle period.
- It was a whole new experience.
- The needed techniques for battling in such places were being learned during the battle.
- ****ytraps were something new to the army.
- Supplies were coming during the battle, and even after few weeks of its beginning, not before.
- The whole issue was a controversy, especially in politics through which the army had to take any action or not and even to make compromises.
- Etc...
Now, I see the possible next battle a better stand for the Lebanese army, though unfortunately we will loose some of our brave soldiers. As everyone know any similar battle will take place apparently in Ein el Helwi. In military wise, I think the army is more ready and experienced in such a warfare this time.
First of all, the army is monitoring the camp 24/24 either by the cameras that are planted around the camp or by intelligence inside it. There is no doubt that the army is currently studying the camp structure and the possible strategies to be used. All this backed by the experience learned during the early mess in Naher el Bared and the later experiences in the late days of the battle.
Something else should not be missed, the army is highly willing to have jet fighters, and refurbishing the Hunters comes for this purpose of course. You can't bomb the hide outs of the groups that are between the dense building with artillery, it proved to be not sufficient, time consuming, not effective and unduly destructive, this is if we remember Naher el Bared. So I feel, the army is refurbishing those planes, in addition to showing interest in other fixed wings planes in order for it to be ready in case it was forced at any time sooner or later to engage in a new battle in such a place. Add to these, the UH-1H and the Gazelle are now equipped.
The soldiers on the other hand, are now better aware of such warfare, and they disseminated the knowledge to the other soldiers of course. In addition, they are more aware of the dangers that are coming along to getting engaged in such a battle (****y traps, enemy sneaking methods), they now know more the techniques that was used against them and it will be easier for them to avoid them (Of course not totally).
We shouldn't also miss that the army has received some weapons that are special for urban ware fair, Bunker buster rocket launchers for instance, those are better for such a battle than what was being used, the RPG B-7 with warhead that are meant to be fired on tanks not rooms. This is in addition to many other needed arms (.50 cal snipers, different rockets, grenade launchers etc...). Moreover, the army is not out of supplies now, so it will not need to wait like 1 or 2 weeks until they receive ammunition for the different equipment before retake the initiative in a battle that they were put in. In addition, the army now is continuously upgrading its soldiers capabilities and its equipment especially for such battles.
Now, as long as the battle is postponed (and hope it doesn't happen at all), the better it is for the army. We know that the army is receiving arms periodically, who knows any deal might pop up any soon and thus more vital arms (Leopard tanks, M60, Cobra etc...) can be in hand.
N.B. I posted a post yesterday talking about some option that can be added to the Gazelles, well i think it can fit well for such battle also.
I find a big issue though in the whole thing, the civilians. We don't want innocent civilians to die, and we are aware that the people there will get displaced but here two issues rise. 1. I feel many will not leave fearing that they might not return to their home like the fear that was built in Naher el Bared civilians during the battle, 2. Ein el Helwi is the largest camp, where should all the people go during the battle? and how long can this big number stay out of it?.
Both, and especially the first point can complicate the battle on the army.
let's revive posting photos a bit in here
zaher
@zaher
i think many of the points pointed at by you are good. yet i think the battle of bared is not that much of help for us since the palestinians are known for there war tactics and there experiences! Another thing is that the extremists in helwe camp are much more agressiv and trained also much more in number!
About the photos well i always take the pics from here since i never find anything in the internet!hehe
I wonder is the bared camp still not rebuilt?
I agree on the above , however the equation is simple:
The more the army gaining in authority and credibility , the more friendly countries will backing her and arming her.
With all what happened in May (and still happening) i beleive the LAF has to impose herself by force .
I beleive some order is highly needed at all levels.
Talking about weapons , I beleive the US are more serious this time in sending (a bit more) lethal equipment to include :
-Fast Patrol crafts (3?)
- 6 to 8 Attack helicopters ( Super Cobras??)
- Other utility Helicopters - UH 1 (12?)
- M60 MBT(s)
Moreover , Leos + the rest of eq. are DEFENITIVELY coming.
Let's wait and see
really!
do you really believe that the US could give or sell the LAF cobras!!i mean these are really expensice and highly advanced!
All above listed equipments do not constitute any threat to countries like Israel , especially when it comes to air superiority.
Just for the info of all friends readers, bombing NEB camp with 250 and 450 KG bomb was not bad , however it was much better at that time to hit the terrorists positions with HOT guided missiles shot by the Gazelles, in a way to have more precise hits and less damage to the logistic channels in a way to have a fluid routes for the army tanks and APC(s) , allowing acceptable manoeuvrability ...However unfortunately these guided missiles are expensive etc...
A Gazelle helicopter used by the Lebanese army made a force landing in the Bekaa Valley and two pilots were wounded, an army communique said.
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