Destroyed tanks

[Kunal Biswas]

That pic is very well known, The shot was taken right at turret ring, the hole is big..
As Damian said its a HEAT, but could be a ATGM in hands of some professional..

[komatoz]

[QUOTE]

Well... This picture bothering me.
Here is my thoughts. First of of all it's not RPG/SPG comparable head. Simply it can not dig a hole as big as this. In recent years everywhere was RPG firing at tanks, and it doesn't looks like this case.
Second. There is markings on the turret from massive rod, that was traveled with high velocity. And I believe that markings with strangely cornered form was left by fins of the munition.
Third: Accuracy. Guided antitank missiles are not accurate like this. In this case it's a man job or high precision active warhead.
Forth. And the most awkward thing is that, as I know, no one claiming responsibility for destroying this tank. Why? This shot is so cool that award is inevitable for shooter.

Fifth. No records of honors. What was cool in 888 war? There was, indeed, a true tank battle. So the tanker must receive award for this kill. But I can not remember that there was one.
Sixth. The lack of comparable pictures. Why this photo can not serve as evidence that this was a tank? The last battle tank on tank was in gulf war. And, as i remember, Abrams was destroyed by t-72, but there is no pics of that to compare with. And previous battles was without this kinds of munitions. And the most probable version (a tank munition with cumulative warhead) again stays without conformation.

So... If I call that this was a huge air-to-surface missile with active homing warhead? Is it possible? Because there is no evidence that it was not.

[Damian90]

It was RPG, i'm 99% certain that this pic is from last Georgian war so this is by 100% an T-72B hit in the back of the turret by RPG, some bigger one like RPG-27 or RPG-28.

And yes, big HEAT warhead will left bigger hole than the smaller warhead.

First of of all it's not RPG/SPG comparable head.

It is RPG, just with a bigger warhead, probably RPG-28 as I said, this beast is even more dangerous than RPG-29.

Simply it can not dig a hole as big as this.

It can, believe me.

In recent years everywhere was RPG firing at tanks, and it doesn't looks like this case.

Only because You did not seen something, doesen't mean that such warhead was not developed.

Second. There is markings on the turret from massive rod, that was traveled with high velocity. And I believe that markings with strangely cornered form was left by fins of the munition.

This markings are from HEAT warhead, this 100% certain... at least for a person that know what is talking about.

Third: Accuracy. Guided antitank missiles are not accurate like this. In this case it's a man job or high precision active warhead.

? It was an RPG hit from an ambush for Christ sake!

Forth. And the most awkward thing is that, as I know, no one claiming responsibility for destroying this tank. Why? This shot is so cool that award is inevitable for shooter.

Yeah, because war is like computer game... how old are You?!

Fifth. No records of honors. What was cool in 888 war? There was, indeed, a true tank battle. So the tanker must receive award for this kill. But I can not remember that there was one.

No, because no serious person will bother that, it is war, no computer game, hello, welcome to the real world.

Sixth. The lack of comparable pictures. Why this photo can not serve as evidence that this was a tank? The last battle tank on tank was in gulf war. And, as i remember, Abrams was destroyed by t-72, but there is no pics of that to compare with. And previous battles was without this kinds of munitions. And the most probable version (a tank munition with cumulative warhead) again stays without conformation.

WTF? Can someone translate this to some language used by humans?

So... If I call that this was a huge air-to-surface missile with active homing warhead? Is it possible? Because there is no evidence that it was not.

It was and RPG! Accept such fact, yeah I know, for kids it is sometimes hard, but it was RPG hit from an ambush. Pic is from Georgia war, I remember that on Georgian T-72B was hit in the same place, so with allmost 100% probability this is that tank.

[Uncle Blues]

The whole tank form another angle.



The photo is from "Destroyed Tanks in Georgia" thread.


There's no need to thank me.

[Damian90]

Thank You!

Yeah, this is the tank, it was hit by an RPG (probably RPG-28, calliber 125mm) from an ambush, dunno if it was hit by Russians or Osetian troops.

[komatoz]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions...&union_id=2101

Well ^ that was a classic RPG and it look alike RPG hit. And even when everything that trow in western tanks usually called "RPG" it wasn't called properly. That is my point. So this remains of the Georgian T-72 still doesn't look like RPG kill.

The main problem, as I said, that pictures of RPG and guided missiles hits is everywhere but pictures with tank that was hit by tank (not by kinetic penetrators) is none. And again it doesn't look like RPG. In that area turret consist of solid steel not some crappy sheet metal.

I call it was air-to-surface missile or MBT gun.

[Damian90]

Well ^ that was a classic RPG and it look alike RPG hit. And even when everything that trow in western tanks usually called "RPG" it wasn't called properly.

Yeah, because You know how classic RPG hit look like, oh wait, what is a classic RPG hit? There is a definition of it?

That is my point. So this remains of the Georgian T-72 still doesn't look like RPG kill.

It is an RPG hit, accept it!

The main problem, as I said, that pictures of RPG and guided missiles hits is everywhere but pictures with tank that was hit by tank (not by kinetic penetrators) is none.

Oh really, You never saw a hit from a kinetic energy penetrator... well this only prooves why You don't know what You talking about. Please, accept finally that this was RPG hit, it is so hard?

And again it doesn't look like RPG. In that area turret consist of solid steel not some crappy sheet metal.

Yeah, because RPG's can't perforate solid cast or rolled steel.

I call it was air-to-surface missile or MBT gun.

So You are not partner to discussion about modern AFV's and things that are inteded to defeat them.

For me You are just layman...

Oh BTW that link You posted, info's are old. That M1A1 was hit by an RPG, lucky shot and probably a newer warhead. RPG hit between sections of heavy ballistic skirts (70mm thick, layered structure) so skirts give less protection, then shaped charge jet go through 80mm side hull armor (RHA) then through ccrew compartment and partially penetrated second hull side.

It is normal, no super weapon was used.

But of course kids that are playing in computer games don't accept simple explanations.

[KoTeMoRe]

The hole is more akin to a 100+ mm warhead (look at the splash) There is one warhead in the current RPG inventory (105mm) tha can be close to that. But in this case an ATGM seems more probable. Especially given the nice Turret ring Hit.

[Damian90]

RPG hit, I am more than 100% certain. I remember that when we first seen that tank, I asked one of Polish military press journalist, and he said that this was certainly RPG. And believe me, he know what he is talking about.

[komatoz]

Yeah, because You know how classic RPG hit look like, oh wait, what is a classic RPG hit? There is a definition of it?

It is an RPG hit, accept it!

Oh really, You never saw a hit from a kinetic energy penetrator... well this only prooves why You don't know what You talking about. Please, accept finally that this was RPG hit, it is so hard?

No. I'm saying that pictures with kinetic penetrators hits is everywhere too, even with Abrams on it. And I'm saying also that even ATGM do not dig a hole like this. And yes, there is a classic RPG hit look. (It's everywhere: two Chechen compaines and all over the world.) This look is very different from it.

As for guided missile... i did not see any hits in the turret ring so far by missile. Because it is almost impossible to hit with such accuracy by missile. Even by RPG from short distance. You can say it was lucky shot and I can say it wasn't. So what? And look at the terrain. It's a middle of a street. There is no way to put a luncher an survive before You can take a shot.

And what do You mean? That Polish Journalist can possibly know what REALLY happen there? I don't think so, sorry. Open Your ayes already. The picture is here.

[kocomour]

I think I read somewhere that it was hit by shot from russian T-62. But I cant find it anymoore.

[Damian90]

No. I'm saying that pictures with kinetic penetrators hits is everywhere too, even with Abrams on it. And I'm saying also that even ATGM do not dig a hole like this. And yes, there is a classic RPG hit look. (It's everywhere: two Chechen compaines and all over the world.) This look is very different from it.

It was an RPG, believe me, big enough warhead will make such big hole.

As for guided missile... i did not see any hits in the turret ring so far by missile. Because it is almost impossible to hit with such accuracy by missile. Even by RPG from short distance. You can say it was lucky shot and I can say it wasn't. So what? And look at the terrain. It's a middle of a street. There is no way to put a luncher an survive before You can take a shot.

It was hit in an ambush from a building. And it was RPG.

And what do You mean? That Polish Journalist can possibly know what REALLY happen there? I don't think so, sorry. Open Your ayes already. The picture is here.

Yes he knows, he saw more hit, damaged and destroyed vehicles from Iraq, Afghanistan and Caucasus than You can even imagine.

And I really don't have time to discuss with a kid that thinks that he knows something... educate yourself.

[komatoz]

I think I read somewhere that it was hit by shot from russian T-62. But I cant find it anymoore.

Are You sure? Where it was?

It was an RPG, believe me, big enough warhead will make such big hole.

It was hit in an ambush from a building. And it was RPG.

Yes he knows, he saw more hit, damaged and destroyed vehicles from Iraq, Afghanistan and Caucasus than You can even imagine.

And I really don't have time to discuss with a kid that thinks that he knows something... educate yourself.

Look, pal... This forum is about photos, right? You have to prove your claim? Please show me picture with same amount of devastation. Because I can show You without hesitation several photos with hits from RPG. Small and big warheads all comparable. I can google it. And they looks not like this photo. And what do You have? Only opinion of some unknown expert. Does He seen a close up photo? Or what? Or He just KNOWS?

[Damian90]

Look, pal... This forum is about photos, right? You have to prove your claim? Please show me picture with same amount of devastation. Because I can show You without hesitation several photos with hits from RPG. Small and big warheads all comparable. I can google it. And they looks not like this photo. And what do You have? Only opinion of some unknown expert. Does He seen a close up photo? Or what? Or He just KNOWS?

M1A1 Cojone Eh, front turret armor hit by AGM-65 with HEAT warhead, as we can see big enough HEAT warhead can do such big hole even in frontal armor.



Merkava Mk.4 also hit by something, most probably big HEAT warhead.




Chieftain tanks after APFSDS hits.

As we can see HEAT wahreads are actually capabale to do much bigger holes than kinetic energy penetrators.

So yeah, I believe person that saw and have much more pics of tanks and other vehicles after attacks on them, have knowledge and professionaly deal with this by his work, than Your silly opinions.

[komatoz]

Damian90, what are You doing? Your Abrams was hit by huge 300 mm in diameter Air-to-surface missile. As I propose as one possible version for this T-72. Right? Your Merkava, I suppose, was hit by some kind of AGTM and I do not see where exactly on this image. Too many sheet metal and other high tech.

RPG hole looks much smaller than that. You know it. And This Georgian T-72 have a hole even bigger than this Abrams! Are You actually proving My point?