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Thread: Black History Month

  1. #91
    Senior Member custodes's Avatar
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    Default RIP Clarence Dart

    I saw on the YNN news (local Time Warner affiliate) today that Clarence Dart died on Friday. He was 91 and flew 95 missions with the Tuskegee Airman and was shot down twice. He recieved 2 Purple Hearts and 5 Distinguished Flying Crosses and a bunch of NY State medals.

    Calling hours are at William Burke & Sons Funeral Home today 2-4 and 6-8. Funeral tomorrow. Saratoga Springs.
    Last edited by custodes; 02-20-2012 at 01:05 PM.

  2. #92
    Μολὼν λαβέ Hollis's Avatar
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    1969 Marines of India 3/3 Quang Tri RVN.




    Allen and Medaris

    Photo, 3/3 reunion site

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    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Another pic from Vietnam..



    Soldiers greet each other with a "dap" at Camp Tien Sha during the Vietnam War..circa 1971. The friendly gesture, and several variants, were popular among African-American soldiers and are similar to the fist bump used by Barack and Michelle Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign. The photograph is part of "Soul Soldiers," which opens Tuesday at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute.

  4. #94
    Member ferguson's Avatar
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    Racial tension and incidents were at a high during this period.
    Much more amongst REMFs than guys in the bush.
    It got a lot more serious and violent than most people will ever know about.

    I got no personal issues-just part of history.

    In 1990, I believe, I attended the 50th anniversary of The Airborne.
    A several day salute over July 4th in DC. Big parade and other stuff. Lots of paratroopers.
    I stayed in a RV park and rode the bus in every day with a fellow from the 1st Black Test Platoon and his wife.
    Nice folks.
    A couple real oldtime airborne guys I know dis the 555 for not going overseas, but that's kind of dumb considering it was someone else's decision.

  5. #95
    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Racial tension and incidents were at a high during this period.
    Very true.

    Same in the USN..especially on carriers. I served on three CVs my first hitch the Hanna was the only ship not to suffer a racial incident.Most other incidents on carriers are not known..but this one below on the Kitty Hawk was so serious that it was reported in Time magazine.

    http://www.history.navy.mil/library/..._incidents.htm

    A. THE "KITTY HAWK" INCIDENT On February 17, 1972, the attack carrier U.S.S. Kitty Hawk departed San Diego for its sixth combat deployment to Southeast Asia. After several extended periods of combat activity, the ship put in to the U.S. Naval Base at Subic Bay, the Philippines, for replenishment of war materiel and a week of rest and recreation for the crew. The ship's company had just recently become aware of the fact they would return to the combat zone after this rest period rather than return home as scheduled. This rescheduling apparently was due the incidents of sabotage aboard her sister ships, U.S.S. Ranger and U.S.S. Forrestal.
    On the tenth of October, a fight occurred at the enlisted men's club at Subic Bay. While it cannot be unequivocally established that Kitty Hawk personnel participated in the fight, circumstantial evidence tend to support the conclusion that some of the ship's black sailors were involved since 15 young blacks returned to the ship on the run and in a very disheveled condition at about the time the fight at the club was brought under control.
    The following morning the ship returned to combat, conducting air operations from 1 to 6 p.m. There were 348 officers and 4,135 enlisted men aboard. Of these, 5 officers and 297 enlisted men were black.
    The first confrontation
    At approximately 7 p.m., in October 12, 1972, the ship's investigator called a black sailor to his office for questioning about his activities in the Subic Bay. He was accompanied by nine other black men. They were belligerent, loud, and used abusive language. Those accompanying him were not allowed to sit in on the investigation. The sailor was apprised of his rights, refused to make a statement and was allowed to leave. Shortly after he left a young messcook was assaulted on the after messdeck. Within a few minutes after that, another young messcook was assaulted on the forward messdeck. In each instance, this same sailor was on the scene.
    The first indication of widespread trouble aboard ship occurred at about 8 p.m. A large number of blacks congregated on the after messdeck, one of two enlisted dining areas. A messcook alerted the Marine Detachment Reaction Force. During the ensuing confrontation between the Marines and black sailors, the corporal of the guard, the only person carrying a firearm, attempted, or appeared to have attempted to draw his weapon. In any event it was not drawn. This incident appears in the testimony, at least in retrospect, to have been one of the more inflammatory events of the early evening.
    At this point the Executive Officer (XO), a black man, arrived on the after messdeck, ordered the Marines to withdraw closed off the hatches into the messdeck area, and, in company with the ship's senior enlisted advisor, a white master chief petty officer, remained inside with the black sailors. As the XO attempted to calm the crowd, the Commanding Officer (CO) entered the area behind him. The XO unaware of the CO's presence, continued to address the crowd. The XO urged all to calm down, asked the apparent leaders of the group to discuss their problem in his cabin, and assured the group that the Marines had been sent below. After an hour or so of discussion, the XO, feeling that the incident was over, released the men to continue about their business.
    The CO, having noted the hostile attitude of the group being addressed by the XO, left the area and instructed the Commanding Officer of the Marines to establish additional aircraft security watches and patrols on the hangar and fight decks. The Marines were given additional instructions by their CO to break up any group of three or more sailors who might appear on the aircraft decks, and disperse them.
    Confrontation on the hangar deck
    As the XO released the group of blacks with whom he had been talking, the major portion of them left the after messdeck by way of the hangar deck. Upon seeing the blacks come onto the hangar deck, the Marines attempted to disperse them. The Marines at the moment were some 26 strong and, trained in riot control procedures, they formed a line and advanced on the blacks, containing them to the after end of the hanger deck. Several blacks were arrested and handcuffed while the remainder, arming themselves with aircraft tie-down chains, confronted the Marines. At this point, the ship's CO appeared and, moving into the space between the Marines and the blacks, attempted to control the situation. The XO, upon being informed of this activity, headed there, arriving in time to see a heavy metal bar thrown from the area of the blacks land near and possibly hit the CO. At this point, the XO was informed that a sailor had been seriously injured below decks, so he departed. The CO, meanwhile, ordered the prisoners released and the Marines to return to their compartment while he attempted to restore order personally.
    Marauding bands
    The XO, after going below, became aware that small groups, ranging from 5 to 25 blacks, were marauding about the ship attacking whites, pulling many sleeping sailors from their berths and beating them with their fists and chains, dogging wrenches, metal pipes, fire extinguisher nozzles and broom handles. While engaged in this behavior, many were heard to shout, "Kill the son-of-a-*****! Kill the white trash! Kill, kill, kill!" Others shouting, "They are killing our brothers." Understandably, the ship's dispensary was the scene of intense activity with the doctors and corpsmen working on the injured personnel. Alarmingly, another group of blacks harassed them and the men waiting to be treated.
    The XO was then informed by at least two sources that the CO had been injured or killed on the hangar deck. Not sure of the facts but believing the reports could be true, the XO made an announcement over the ship's public address system ordering all the ship's blacks to the after messdeck and the Marines to the forecastle, thereby putting as much distance between the two groups as possible.
    Conflicting orders
    The CO, still on the hangar deck talking to a dwindling number of the black sailors, was surprised and distressed at the XO's announcement. At this point he was still unaware of the various groups of black assaulting their white shipmates in several different areas of the ship, and he was, obviously, neither dead nor injured. He headed for the nearest public address system microphone, found the XO there, held a brief conference with the XO, and made an announcement of his own to the effect that the XO had been misinformed and that all hands should return to their normal duties. The announcements by the CO and XO, occurring around midnight, were the first indication to the majority of the crew that there was troubled aboard.
    The final confrontation
    The blacks seemed to gravitate to the forecastle. Their attitude was extremely hostile. Of the 150 or so who were present, most were armed. The XO followed one group to the forecastle, entered and, as he later stated, he believed that had he not been black he would have been killed on the spot. He addressed the group for about two hours, reluctantly ignoring his status as the XO and instead appealing to the men as one black to another. After some time he acquired control over the group, calmed them down, had them put their weapons at his feet or over the side, and then ordered them to return to their compartments. The meeting broke up about 2:30 in the morning and for all intents and purposes, the violence aboard Kitty Hawk was over.
    The ship fulfilled its combat mission schedule that morning and for the remainder of her time on station. During this period Kitty Hawk established a record 177 days on the line in a single deployment. After the incident senior enlisted men and junior officers were placed in each berthing compartment and patrolled the passageways during night-time hours to ensure that similar incidents would not recur.
    The 21 men who were charged with offense under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and who requested civilian counsel, were put ashore at Subic Bay to be later flown to San Diego to meet the ship on its return. The remaining 5 charged were brought to trial aboard the ship during its transit back to the United States.
    A total of 47 men, all but 6 or 7 of them white, were treated for injuries on the night of October 12-13, 1972; three required medical evacuation to shore hospitals while the rest were treated aboard the ship.

  6. #96
    kid got gumption BAF's Avatar
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    What happend for those sailors to react that way BD? I cant really tel from the article (or i must be looking over it)

  7. #97
    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAF View Post
    What happend for those sailors to react that way BD? I cant really tel from the article (or i must be looking over it)
    lack of leadership..lack of discipline in the 1972 USN. By lack of leadership I mean very few black petty officers,CPOs and Officers navy wide.

    In addition most of the petty officers and CPO's were southerners..Not good..I know I lived it..If I had not served on the USS Han***** I'm sure I would have ended my USN career at 4 years. Hanna had very few racial problems.

    This is what the USN found out about the causes of the riot..

    http://www.history.navy.mil/library/..._incidents.htm

    II. FINDINGS, OPINIONS, AND RECOMMENDATIONS A. FINDINGS
    1. The subcommittee finds that permissiveness, as defined on page 17679 of this report, exists in the Navy today. Although we have been able to investigate only certain specific incidents in depth, the total information made available to us indicates the condition could be servicewide.
    2. The vast majority of the Navy men and women are performing their assigned duties loyally and efficiently. The subcommittee is fully aware and appreciative of their efforts. The cause of concern, however, rests with that segment of the naval force which is either unable or unwilling to function within the prescribed limitations and up to the established standards of performance or conduct.
    3. The subcommittee has been unable to determine any precipitous cause for rampage aboard U.S.S. Kitty Hawk. Not only was there not one case wherein racial discrimination could be pinpointed, but there is no evidence which indicated that the blacks who participated in that incident perceived racial discrimination, either in general or any specific, of such a nature as to justify belief that violent reaction was required.
    4. The subcommittee finds that the incident aboard U.S.S. Constellation was the result of a carefully orchestrated demonstration of passive resistance wherein a small number of blacks, certainly no more than 20-25,in a well-organized campaign, willfully created among other blacks the belief that white racism existed in the Navy and aboard that ship. The subcommittee, again in this instance as with the incident aboard Kitty Hawk, found no specific example of racial discrimination. In this case, however, it is obvious that the participants perceived that racial discrimination existed. Several events were made to appear as examples of racial discrimination when, in fact, such was not the case.
    5. Testimony revealed that one of the triggering devices for the dissident activity aboard Constellation was a misunderstanding, particularly among the young blacks, which led them to believe that in order to reduce the number of personnel aboard the ship to the authorized level, general discharges were about to be awarded to 250 black crew members.
    In fact, the ship was in process of reducing its complement by 250 personnel in order to make room for air wing personnel who would embark prior to the forthcoming combat deployment. At the same time the captain had directed that certain records be reviewed and that those he considered to be troublemakers, if they qualified for administrative discharge, be notified of the ship's intent to commence processing of the required paperwork.
    It is unfortunate that this latter discharge procedure was initiated against six crewmembers in one day without adequate explanation of the justification for such action--especially since all six were black and this promoted the feeling that racial discrimination was the cause. In addition, the lack of counselling pertaining to the poor performance marks received by those being considered for administrative discharge caused notification of pending discharge to serve as traumatic incidents to those who were to receive them.
    There is strong evidence, however, that these misunderstandings were fostered and fanned by a small group of skilled agitators within the ranks of the young black seamen.
    6. The subcommittee was informed that the review, conducted by Naval Personnel Research Activity, San Diego, has found no racial discrimination in the punishments awarded by the Commanding Officer, U.S.S. Constellation.
    The subcommittee found no evidence that that conclusion was in error.
    7. Discipline, requiring immediate response to command, is absolutely essential to any military force. Particularly in the forces afloat there is no room for the "town meeting" concept or the employment of negotiation or appeasement to obtain obedience to order. The Navy must be controlled by command, not demand.
    8. The subcommittee found that insufficient emphasis has been given to formal leadership training, particularly in the ranks of petty officers and junior officers.
    9. The generally smart appearance of naval personnel, both afloat and ashore, has deteriorated markedly. While the subcommittee appreciates efforts to allow maximum reasonableness in daily routines, there is absolutely no excuse for slovenly appearance of officers and men in the Navy uniform and such appearance should not be tolerated.
    10. There was no formal training of the master-at-arms force. There was not effective utilization of the Marine force. Certainly there was no contingency plan for the coordination of these two forces in events such as these. Once the activities started, there was no plan which would have acted to halt them. The result was to let them wear themselves out.
    11. The members of the subcommittee did not find and are unaware of any instances of any instances of institutional discrimination on the part of the Navy toward any group of persons, majority or minority.
    12. Black unity, the drive toward togetherness on the part of blacks, has resulted in a tendency on the part of black sailors to polarize. This results in a grievance of one black, real or fancied, becoming the grievance of many. Polarization is an unfortunate trend and negates efforts since 1948 to integrate the military services and to stamp out separation. This divisive trend must be reversed.
    13. Nonmilitary gestures such as "passing the power" or "dapping" are disruptive, serve to enhance racial polarization, and should be discouraged.
    14. After the incidents on Kitty Hawk and Constellation, a meeting was called by the Secretary of the Navy of all the admirals in the Washington, D.C., area in which the CNO spoke to the failure of the Navy to meet its human relations goals. Immediately thereafter, his remarks were made available to the press and sent as a message to all hands. Because of the wording of the text, it was perceived by many to be a public admonishment by the CNO of his staff for the failure to solve racial problems within the Navy. Even though this was followed within 96 hours by Z-gram 117 which stressed the need for discipline, the speech itself, the issuance of it to the public press, and the timing of its delivery, all served to emphasize the CNO's perception of the Navy's problems. Again, concern over racial problems seemed paramount to the question of good order and discipline even though there had been incidents on two ships which may be characterized as "mutinies". The subcommittee regrets that the tradition of not criticizing seniors in front of their subordinates was ignored in this case.
    15. The Navy's recruitment program for most of 1972 which resulted in the lowering of standards for enlistment, accepting a greater percentage of mental category IV and those in the lower half of category III, not requiring recruits in these categories to have completed their high school education, and accepting these people without sufficient analysis of their previous offense records, has created many of the problems the Navy is experiencing today.
    16. The reduction of time in recruit training from 9 to 7 weeks, thus sending those personnel who do not qualify for advanced training in "A" schools from the street to the fleet in less than two months, appears to result in inadequate preparation for shipboard duty.
    17. The investigation disclosed an alarming frequency of successful acts of sabotage and apparent sabotage on a wide variety of ships and stations within the Navy.
    that being stated

    On the JFK in 1972 there were about 400-500 blacks. Only two black first class petty officers and no black officers or CPOs. And very few E-5 and E-4 black petty officers.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Dominique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
    Very true.

    Same in the USN..especially on carriers.
    My father served as SK and MA back in the early late 60's and 70's on a couple of carriers, and shore duty in San Francisco and Treasure Island, and from what he used to tell me, those were "interesting" times.

  9. #99
    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
    On the JFK in 1972 there were about 400-500 blacks. Only two black first class petty officers and no black officers or CPOs. And very few E-5 and E-4 black petty officers.
    How were Promotions based back then in the Navy? Point/Merit based, or board reccomendation?

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    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineDoggie View Post
    How were Promotions based back then in the Navy? Point/Merit based, or board reccomendation?
    You had to take a Navy wide exam. But.. you had to be recommended and do certain courses. When I was on the JFK no one in my division told me or answered any of my questions about how to do the rate training courses. By the time I got to the Midway I had figured it out. It was then I took the petty officer 3rd class exam and passed and was promoted.

  11. #101
    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    OK so you could still be jammed up by a bad reccommendation, no reccommendation by a racist supervisor or one that doesnt like you for whatever reason even before the exams. Thats why I liked the point system by MOS- went by Mil Education, Civ education, Awards, PT and Weapons score, and then Personal appraisal. the pers appraisal counted for less than the other main categorys so a **** had less chance of screwing you over.

  12. #102
    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Limedoggie one of the biggest stumbling blocks for some in that USN at that time was the ability to read and understand the required courses and the exam.. At that time the USN and the other services had recruited "lower mental group" persons to serve. Big mistake. Not only that the military was granting waivers for past criminal conduct. Nowadays many of these persons could not get past the first meeting with a recuiter.

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    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    Next weekend I'm gonna post more pix like these..



    "A gun crew of six Negroes who were given the Navy Cross for standing by their gun when their ship was damaged by enemy attack in the Philippine area." Crew members: Jonell Copeland, AtM2/c; Que Gant, StM; Harold Clark, Jr., StM; James Eddie Dockery, StM; Alonzo Alexander Swann, StM; and Eli Benjamin, StM. Ca. 1945.


    "Crewmen aboard U.S.S. Tulagi (CVE-72) en route to southern France for Aug. 15th invasion. Miles Davis King, StM 2/c, carrying a loaded magazine to his 20mm gun." August 1944.

  14. #104
    the Ralph Wiggum of Mp.net. timetraveller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by California Joe View Post
    How about the 54th Massachussets and their actions at Ft. Wagner. Depicted in the movie "Glory".

    That is an Exceptional Film one off my favourites

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    The soul that is within me no man can degrade bd popeye's Avatar
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    ^^ agreed.. "Glory" is an outstanding film. the best ever depiction the US Civil War.

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