US & Iraqi Special Operations in Sadr city

[Tom W.]

So if i understand it correctly you mean the "Madhis" were killed/surrendered and captured. Have you got any understanding on how many "got away"? Did the "smaller fish" lay down their arms?
By the way what happened with the Iraqi government forces that gave up are they being punished in some way?

Most of the Madhis got away in Basra. In Sadr City, plenty surrendered their arms.

The Maliki government has promised to prosecute soldiers and cops who deserted or refused to carry out their duties.

[Argyll]

Tom,
I'm trying my level best with you here, and you keep dodging the question, are you a serving member of the US Military in Iraq or not, if you're not, why not, because from what I'm seeing from you is that talk is cheap....

Major Combat operations over.......Indeed, and he was WRONG, WRONG WRONG, they hadn't even started.....How many times has major offensives in Fallujah, Ramadi, Mosul, Baghdad, Baquba taken place since he uttered those words, also did he not say "Bring it on"

I'm not asking for your respect, I don't need it, I've been here performing tasks in the rebuilding of this great country, what exactly is it you're doing other than making pretty stupid accusations?

Dude, don't call me dishonest, and then use the name of your President in the same breath...and once again, you've ditched the subject entirely, by turning the focus on the US aspect.....

You know nothing of the Operation in Basra, because of what you just posted......their logistics were fcuked up, and they couldn't bring supplies, ammo and reinforcements in, because they never had an open corridor, the JAM controlled the Routes to the North, and to the West, the JAM also maintained control over Al Amara, where the ISF took a beasting, every time it tried to leave their camp...so they stayed put, allowing the JAM to remain in situ....
These Basrans you keeps calling them that are flocking to join the ISF, come from 2 tribes, just to the North of the Shat-Al-Arab, they were promised a significant entry number into the ISF, in turn for turning against the JAM, and today, there is still sporadic incidents within the city.

You're very quick to say that it unified the Government where thousands turned out in support of Malaki, well dude, thousands turned out in support of Sadr as well, thousands, if not tens of thousands marched chanting Saddams name as well, during his reign, doesn't mean they support him, people turn up for marches becasue they feel left out, and want to be part of something big, even if they don't truly know why their marching.

[Tom W.]

Sorry translation- whinging = whining.

Whining? Nobody whining here.

Annoyed, sure. Can't I be annoyed at the persistence of falsehoods?

Sometimes we have to take things seriously, even if it does make us look like bad actors or whinging pomeranians.

[Moose]

Argyll
I do not think Tom.W is answering you? I do not think anything can come out of you two arguing on the subject considering that there seems to be something fundamentally different/wrong in the communication (to much baggage)

Considering your closeness in time and room and your lack of "dependence" on the issue i value you insight on the subject higher that Tom.W who i know nothing about.

If you could, would you describe how you perceive the fighting ended in Basra?

[Tom W.]

Here's a completely different take on the fighting in Basra, by an Iraqi might know a thing or two more than I:

http://www.tinyurl.com/3ay377

I like the cut of his jib...

This version of events seems more rational than the "al Sadr is the champion of champions" narrative.

At any rate, it's more encouraging. Not sure if I buy the "panicked Petraeus" meme, but who knows? We all have our limits.

[Ravage]

Is the short barrel M4 used only by SEALs in Iraq or does the Army SOF use them also ?



That might give a clue what unit was acting as advisors for the Iraqis.

[Argyll]

Is the short barrel M4 used only by SEALs in Iraq or does the Army SOF use them also ?



That might give a clue what unit was acting as advisors for the Iraqis.

The advisors are drawn from various different units, and the Mk18 is not unique to the TEAM's Ravage,

Tom,
One thing you fail to realise, that Basra controlled by JAM seriously effects my mission here, and I more than most here, would seriously like Basra to be completely pacified, so we can go about our business, without getting whacked by EFP's...there was no ceasefire down here, it was business as usual, and even to this day, EFP's are being planted, and targetting MNF and PSC's alike.....I don't want a city controlled by ANY Militia mate.

The article was a good read.......

So is this one........and I know Malcolm Nance personally....

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/200...-defining-mom/

This goes back to down is up and up is down , black is white and white is black.....

[Pook2]

Tom W.

Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds in saying this, but regardless of your political views, you posted a cool video. It would be a shame to see another person who posts quality material get banned for a simple argument, so what do you say to all of us just dropping this debate and enjoying the posted material as it is?

[Commander Shepard]

That might give a clue what unit was acting as advisors for the Iraqis.

The primary unit training and leading them is more than likely a US Army SF CIF company, since setting up and observing other nation's tier 1 CT units is the other half of their job description.

[SoftLion]

Great video - thanks for posting

[Sgt.Jones]

That video was hot.

I didn't know that spec op teams roll that deep. Was it a direct action or something?

[Semeru]

Tom, normally I'm satisfied with lurking but I felt the need to jump into the fray when I saw you post this:

We need people who understand that this war is entirely winnable. You're obsessed with spreading a defeatist message. You can't bring me down, though. This war has never been as badly fought as has been reported. Compared to the Algerian War of Independence or the two Chechen Wars, we've done virtually everything right.
So thanks for your service, now stand down and go do something else.
I'm not buying your defeatism. Sorry.

You're attacking the man and not his arguement, making assumptions about his character, and generally concluding based on a few posts on a forum that he doesn't have what it takes to do his job. You're taking this arguement from Basra to home (especially when you personalize it by saying things like "you can't bring me down".)

Which leads us to the next problem: In the literal sense, Argyll actually is in Basra while you aren't. Which means that you can thump the big-book-of-media-that-supports-me all you want but he has ground truth with a good old fashioned pair of mark 1 mod 0 eyeballs.

Argyll, stay safe, especially if things flare up again.

[JKD]

Don't you understand English?

No, actually. Despite being born and raised in the US to English speaking parents I never learned English. The really weird thing is I just hold my hands out over the keyboard and start randomly pressing keys, sometimes with my eyes closed, and the result is, though imperfect, English and usually somewhat on topic. I have no idea what I'm typing or what I'm responding too.

A construct is not a conspiracy.

The Media did it, yes? That darn Media.

Anyway, neocon's just a noun not a pejorative when most people use it. As I said, just a shorter easier version of neoconservative. Certainly many people, my self included, don't agree with neoconservative ideas or like their policies. But I don't agree with many ideologies' ideas and policies. It's just that it's like pulling teeth to get a neocon to admit they're a neocon or that the ideology even exists. But I already addressed that in my previous post, so moving on....

And "media" doesn't shouldn't be capitalized, unless you're referring to ancient Persia when it was inhabited by the Medes.

I usually capitalize it in this context when discussing it with people of certain political persuasions since they tend to view the media as single minded monolithic entity that they like to blame for a wide variety of things.

[Tom W.]

I usually capitalize it in this context when discussing it with people of certain political persuasions since they tend to view the media as single minded monolithic entity that they like to blame for a wide variety of things.

Makes perfect sense.

Carry on.

[Tom W.]

Looks like I may have been right, even though I'm not in Basra:

"Iran joined militias in battle for Basra"

http://www.tinyurl.com/3vatz5

IRANIAN forces were involved in the recent battle for Basra, General David Petraeus, the US commander in Iraq, is expected to tell Congress this week.

Military and intelligence sources believe Iranians were operating at a tactical command level with the Shi’ite militias fighting Iraqi security forces; some were directing operations on the ground, they think.

Wait a minute! The Madhi Army isn't trained by Iran, and it just gets their guns from smugglers, I thought. Gee, who to believe? General Petraeus or someone else?

Not that this will change anybody's mind, but the new Iraqi army did indeed go up against some of the most experienced fighters in the middle east. That's all I was saying.

Fighting is still going on, which means the operation isn't over, which in turn means it's too soon to declare a winner.

That was my original point. If by saying that I overstepped my bounds, well, then, I sincerely apologize.