Handgun procurement

[akmarksman]

I never had trouble with 7 rounds of .45ACP..
of course reloads might be an issue if you spray..or if there's more than one bad guy..but shot placement and training outweigh caliber.

You could have a .50BMG thermonuclear round and if you don't aim..and you miss..well what about the guy on the other end,who has trained with his .32ACP and consistently hits targets out to 40yds with 1" groups?

[wamp]

Thanks alot guys. That helped alot

So out of the 4 rounds witch would be the best deffence round. For a last resort sort of thing.
Witch would you want to have on your hip if you had nothing else and you were backed into a corner/ditch/hell.

We could argue about the best caliber for pages, but the best thing is like akmarksman said, find a gun that you are comfortable with and go from there. If you have a range near you rent a couple of diffrent handguns in diffrent calibers and see what you like. Once you decide on a pistol then practice, practice, practice.

Obvisouly stay away from the smaller calibers, but with any of the 9mm,40s&w, .45acp, 357sig, you will be fine.

[Sneeker]

Right on thanks guys for all your input again.

[Hollis]

Between the 0.38 and the 0.357, I will choose the 0.38 as having the better balance between power and shootability.

Yes that about sums up shooting. I was LEo just when the switch to 357 Mag from 38 spec, it was stopability. Generally a LEO in alife threatening situation stopabilty is a important factor, especially when a perp is pumped on PCP(?) and a 38 just does not hit hard enough. For generall sport shooting I like 38 Spec loads.

[eighty2]

"The .357SIG has an amazing amount of FPS coming out of the muzzle also which allows for more penetration, granted there was a problem at first with this, but we shoot alot of cars off the road here and it was nice to have a round that would crack a rim etc."

Damn... Don't mess with Texas!

[LtVacan]

I would be interested in which brand of .357 Sig ammo was used in that test. All of the JHP ammo that I have in that caliber clocks over 1400 FPS, the tested ammo was at 1319 fps. Corbon loads are around 1450 with 125 gr. bullets and 1420 or so with 150 gr. bullets.

I have several pistols in .357 Sig caliber and I have fired several thousand rounds through them (Glock 32, H&K USP compact, Sig P229, Sig P239). I have not shot anybody with them, but I HAVE used them in several tactical pistol classes. More than half of the ammo I use in training is FMJ and I doubt it is at the maximum pressure. I was actually putting dents in the steel targets made of hardened steel armor plate. No other pistol caliber has ever done this in the 15-20 years this school has been in existance.

I personally can shoot much better with the .357 Sig than with the .40 S&W from otherwise identical pistols. The recoil is not more, or less, but different. The .357 seems to push the gun back while the .40 seems to go up.

I've been shooting 9mm guns for decades, with a wide variety of ammo, including NATO ball, +p and +P+. My experience tells me the .357 Sig outperforms them all. I like it better than the .40, but that is just a personal preference. The full house 10mm beats them both, but only slightly, and requires a larger frame pistol.

That's my two cents.

[ogukuo72]

The bullets used in the picture of the bare gelatin shots were all Federal HST's. BTW, the picture would look exactly the same if Federal Tactical, Speer Gold Dot, or Winchester Ranger Talon were used instead...

The photos illustrating the recovered bullets depict Gold Dot in 357 Sig and Ranger Talons for the other calibers--they represent optimum performance in each caliber.

"Partywaggin", you might consider re-assessing your comment that the 357 Sig compares to the .45 ACP--the 357 Sig has nearly identical expansion and permanent crush cavity compared with the 9 mm, not .45 ACP. The only area where the 357 Sig is similar to .45 ACP is with the temporary cavity, however, since the stretch effects are relatively minor with all of these service calibers and cause no significant injury, the similarity is moot. Please review the following previous discussions of 357 Sig.

Here you go! I think it's the Gold Dot 357 SIG. Can't find any mention of what they shot it out of, though.

I would suppose to shooting a round that depends on high velocity out of a shorter barrel might effect its performance somewhat.

[ogukuo72]

Yes that about sums up shooting. I was LEo just when the switch to 357 Mag from 38 spec, it was stopability. Generally a LEO in alife threatening situation stopabilty is a important factor, especially when a perp is pumped on PCP(?) and a 38 just does not hit hard enough. For generall sport shooting I like 38 Spec loads.

Then you'll contemplate with horror our little country of Singapore here! Our patrol officers carry a five-shot 0.38 Special Taurus M85 3-inch barrelled revolver.

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

springfield XD in .45 ACP 13 rounds...$475...good deal???

[LtVacan]

thanks for the link! very imformative. I spent most of the afternoon at work reading that site. LOL

[Hollis]

Then you'll contemplate with horror our little country of Singapore here! Our patrol officers carry a five-shot 0.38 Special Taurus M85 3-inch barrelled revolver.

wow, I carried in my boot a little chiefs special, S&W mod 38, 5 shots, but we would load them hot, with 148 gr hollow base wad cutters, the buller was inverted..
I saw it as a belly button gun.

9mm is a magazine fed 38 spec. except you only have 5 rds in the pistols.

[Durandal]

springfield XD in .45 ACP 13 rounds...$475...good deal???

If its hassle free and walk out the door, then yeah, 475.00 ain't bad. You should be getting two mags with it too.

You might get it cheaper, used or online, but then there are other issues involved.

Doing a Froogle search I found one for 430.00 on Gunbroker...whom I have never used to purchase a gun through. Then you have a transfer which will probably cost 25.00 average and then you might not see it for six weeks or, like in Geezah's case, 4 months.

[ogukuo72]

I think you'd be interested in what they've to say about the best loads for a 2-in J-frame BUG at tactical forums. The recommendation is a 148-gr wadcutter target loading.

The reasoning is that with a 2-in barrel, you can't get much velocity out of the BUG anyway, even if you're using a hot 0.357 loading. Besides, you'll gets lots of flash and recoil.

There's not much point using a hollow-point also (an inverted base wadcutter is a hollow-point) as, again the velocity isn't high enough to ensure reliable expansion.

The 148-gr is a good compromise. Its flat face will cut a nice would channel, even if it doesn't expand, it'll penetrate deep enough into the body to reach vital organs, it's accurate and it's got soft recoil.

One more thing: I was rather surprised some time back to hear that the 200-gr 0.38 Special RNL loading had not been available in the US for a very long time. My impression was that it was a very good round against targets behind barriers such as car windscreens, and it delivers quite a punch. I wonder why it isn't more popular?

[ogukuo72]

Detonics Combatmaster


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[Hollis]

I think you'd be interested in what they've to say about the best loads for a 2-in J-frame BUG at tactical forums. The recommendation is a 148-gr wadcutter target loading.

The reasoning is that with a 2-in barrel, you can't get much velocity out of the BUG anyway, even if you're using a hot 0.357 loading. Besides, you'll gets lots of flash and recoil.

There's not much point using a hollow-point also (an inverted base wadcutter is a hollow-point) as, again the velocity isn't high enough to ensure reliable expansion.

The 148-gr is a good compromise. Its flat face will cut a nice would channel, even if it doesn't expand, it'll penetrate deep enough into the body to reach vital organs, it's accurate and it's got soft recoil.

One more thing: I was rather surprised some time back to hear that the 200-gr 0.38 Special RNL loading had not been available in the US for a very long time. My impression was that it was a very good round against targets behind barriers such as car windscreens, and it delivers quite a punch. I wonder why it isn't more popular?

148 gr inverted with, 3.X gr Bullseye (may be off on that check with a reloading manual, maybe 4 grains and your pistol manufacter load data) it does expand... Look at the base, this was a long time ago and it is not for shooting accurately/distance shooting, you screw the gun in a person belly button/extremely close range. It is when they just took you side arm away and you have a few seconds to live. Boot guns are back up in the worse case senerio. The 148 hollowbase about doubles it size in expansion.

If your in a agency check with your shooting policy before you use a load like that.