Handgun procurement

[Hollis]

I understand the m9 is a bit underpowered, but who cares. The folks who actually need a .45 are getting them, and a 9mm will do almost everything that needs to be done. This is ridiculous, I have freakin potholes all over my city and these asshats are going back to the drawing board for another pistol. Just call kimber, sig, colt, or any of the others and just order them if its that necessary.

Gen A calls Gen B, "Hey B, my daughter married a looser, I need to find him a job. It has got to pay well so my precious daughter can live like she is use to living. Keep in mind he is a born looser."

B responds, "No problem, we can set him up on the research committee to develop the next generation pistol. That should keep him busy till he retires."

Gen A say, "Thank B, I owe you."

[James]

They should just get .40 Glocks and be done with it... Inexpensive, reliable, reasonably accurate... I love the 1911, but it seems that the military these days is more interested in things that require less training. As awesome as the 1911 is, it definitely requires a fair amount of training to make a user proficient.

[tikwi]

wont 15 rounds .45 make the grip twice the size and hard to control?

[James]

wont 15 rounds .45 make the grip twice the size and hard to control?

I'd be a lot more comfortable with a traditional single stacked .45, with only 8 or 9 rounds, and I've got huge hands. When it gets too big it feels like you're hanging on to a 2x4 (5cm x 10cm) board to the rest of you.

[Stan187]

wont 15 rounds .45 make the grip twice the size and hard to control?

Have you ever seen a double stack magazine? Of course it won't be twice as wide, the rounds aren't all stacked side to side, they sit diagonally. Para Ordnance and Bul, as well as other companies I'm sure, have already made .45s like this, and they are not harder to control.

[Laconian]

They should just get .40 Glocks and be done with it... Inexpensive, reliable, reasonably accurate... I love the 1911, but it seems that the military these days is more interested in things that require less training. As awesome as the 1911 is, it definitely requires a fair amount of training to make a user proficient.

x2. They could even go with the Glock 17. The whole 9mm vs. .45 vs .40 is all crap anyway. It's a handgun round, you want to kill something with it you're gonna have to hit it a bunch anyways.

[Seraphim]

I thought there was talk about a 40. I think it was Navy.

[Likvid]

wont 15 rounds .45 make the grip twice the size and hard to control?

This is STi Eagle with 2011 double-stack frame. It has actually same total width as single-stack 1911, frame itself is only sightly wider.
126mm (5") magazine has 12 rounds capacity, 140mm (5.5") one has 14 rounds in .45 (14 and 17 in .40, 17 and 20 in 9x19)

[SoCalEMT]

x2. They could even go with the Glock 17. The whole 9mm vs. .45 vs .40 is all crap anyway. It's a handgun round, you want to kill something with it you're gonna have to hit it a bunch anyways.

WISE, WISE, WISE!
Pistol rounds basically suck at killing people. Besides, the U.S. .mil is NEVER going to procure another single action pistol, let alone a double stack .45 that is ergonomically unsuited to the vast majority of service personnel.

Thanks,
SoCalEMT

[Hollis]

They should just get .40 Glocks and be done with it... Inexpensive, reliable, reasonably accurate... I love the 1911, but it seems that the military these days is more interested in things that require less training. As awesome as the 1911 is, it definitely requires a fair amount of training to make a user proficient.

WISE, WISE, WISE!
Pistol rounds basically suck at killing people. Besides, the U.S. .mil is NEVER going to procure another single action pistol, let alone a double stack .45 that is ergonomically unsuited to the vast majority of service personnel.

Thanks,
SoCalEMT

SoCal responded to Laconian, his comments are also important. As with James 40S&W is a good compromise. It offers a little more power with not that much of a impact on the shooter.

A general service handgun, needs to fit the biggest group of people. Obviously people on teams can choose what ever they want that works for them, but the average soldier can not. In a way the Military has to pick a firearm for the weakest link.

There are ergonomic issues too, some of that can be resolved with a "fit kit", but that still limits the base design. You can add to the thickness of the frame for larger hands, but you can not thin it out. Example the physical design of a double stack limits how thin the grip can be. A single stack can be thicken to the width of a double stack.


The final assessment is what the pistol is needed for. In combat it has been said, "A pistol gives you something to fight with, until you can get a rifle."


We also have logistic concerns too.

This is not a issue of what I like or what you like, it is what most usable by the most soldiers.

[SoCalEMT]

This is not a issue of what I like or what you like, it is what most usable by the most soldiers.

Ah, the sweet sound of common sense!
SoCalEMT

[Laconian]

Hollis, if you keep clouding the issue with relevant facts and common sense, the vast majority of internetters will have nothing to get their panties in a bunch over...Some of the only PT these folks get is jumping to conclusions based on rumor and conjecture.

[Tony Williams]

I thought there was talk about a 40. I think it was Navy.

IIRC the US Coast Guard has adopted the .40 S&W.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[Antimatty]

so i recently turned 21, old enough to buy a gun.
i was checking out the website of a gun store and it mentioned a handgun safety course. where would i go to take this course?

i imagine it's not very complicated . treat every gun as if its loaded, make sure the safety is on,etc .

so any details would be appreciated.

[Solomin]

I don't know what country you are in, that info may help. However, in the US, at least here in Minnesota, I know the local gun ranges all have classes on conceal and carry, marksmanship, basic training etc, for people to become familiar with firearms. For myself, I have only done hunter's safety, which only took 2 hours(DNR's website has all necessary info), and a handgun/assault rifle permit which doesn't have a class or any training.