Rhodesian Bush War Phtotographs

[GGP]

I certainly agree with you comment that the PVs came in too late in the war, like closing the stable door after the horse had bolted. As you talk with some authority on the issue GGP so one assumes you were in GF. Did you ever come across a chap called John Carghill/Cowghill at Kotwa? GF was one of the many unsung but nevertheless important elements of the RhSecFor and I never envied the guys who were posted to the PVs, must have slept with one eye open all the time!!

Sorry Nzhou, I dont recall the name Carghill.
Yes I was in GF and we did our best with the limited resources and support we had. Had to fend for ourselves most of the time. The ROH does I believe contain a disproportionate amount of GF personnel.....that could be for many reasons of course.
Worked in Kotwa/Mudzi/Mtoko/Mrewa PVs then whipped out on infantry role in Mayo, Headlands, Mangwende, Gwanda and Kezi. (Southern Matabeleland was as I'm sure you know was not the best in terms of cover ....give me the NE any time for camouflage!)
Felt safer 'sleeping' in the bush than in any Keep any day. We were like a magnet in the PVs and my respect went out to the Intaf guys who were sitting ducks in those posts for a long long time.
Concept of PVs were excellent but we were a little half-hearted in the execution although I'm sure the Intaf guys must have thought them a godsend in comparison to what was there previously.

[GGP]

PVs
For an excellent composite of PVs/Intaff etc visit:

http://www.freewebs.com/dudleywall/

[Cnd Riflemen]

The majority (if not all) of the G3s used in Rhodesia were Portuguese. In fact the 'selector' designations were in that language.

Interesting, I had heard, informally, that the G3s used in Rhodesia were German made, but this was not verified. In does make sense that they were Portuguese as, until '74, Rhodesia had a direct conduit to Portugal via Mozambique.

[GGP]

[QUOTE=Cnd Riflemen;4527891]Interesting, I had heard, informally, that the G3s used in Rhodesia were German made, but this was not verified. In does make sense that they were Portuguese as, until '74, Rhodesia had a direct conduit to Portugal via Mozambique.[/QUOT

Whilst they were made in Portugal I believe they were 'purloined' out of Mozambique. Whatever they were they were certainly not new.

[rhodtpr]

I certainly agree with you comment that the PVs came in too late in the war, like closing the stable door after the horse had bolted. As you talk with some authority on the issue GGP so one assumes you were in GF. Did you ever come across a chap called John Carghill/Cowghill at Kotwa? GF was one of the many unsung but nevertheless important elements of the RhSecFor and I never envied the guys who were posted to the PVs, must have slept with one eye open all the time!!

See my pic's on #530 for a look at July 1979 move of rural villagers from their traditional kraals into PV's in the Mzuribane area.

Too little, too late I am afraid.

BTW, David Rex Prosser, an Aussie and very fine soldier who was KIA serving in the RLI on OP Uric Sep/1979 (and one of my fellow "recruits" on 1 RhSAS intake 164) was a former member of Gaurd Force prior to enlisting in the Rhodesian Army as a regular soldeir.

He was a good man that I am proud to have known.

[Keith_H]

These were guys who were conscripted out of Lisbon's coffee shops and bars who were given some training and sent to the otherside of the world and ordered to fight for a cause for which they were either ideologically very unprepared, did not understand or indeed simply did not believe in....

For these reasons I think it is unfair to compare the effectiveness of their colonial armies to that of the Rhodesian army. We were fighting for our lives, our society, our home, "our" country in "our" country, they were not. That to me is the deciding factor in how aggressive soldiers are and indeed when the s**t hits the fan it's a big factor in ones performance.

Within the context of the Porta war effort Lancero may have a point that against the backdrop of this largely de-motivated army there may have been regular or irregular units that performed well.

I get the impression there was a similar issue with the French troops in Algeria. Whilst there were high levels of motivation amongst the elite units, and some of the irregular units, many of the regular conscripts had a very different outlook.

[GGP]

I get the impression there was a similar issue with the French troops in Algeria. Whilst there were high levels of motivation amongst the elite units, and some of the irregular units, many of the regular conscripts had a very different outlook.

I have always thought this to be the case that for example US conscripts/Nat Servicemen in SE Asia, but how about those same Nat Servicemen from the South African Army in Angola? Far from 'home' , foreign territory, but their motivation and morale we assume was reasonably high.
I guess the feeling was that terrorism had to be stiopped there otherwise it would be SA next whereas no matter if the Portuguese lost in Mocambique or Angola or Guinea-Bissau, the outcome was never going to have a direct affect on the motherland. (It only brought down the Potuguese Govt. but thats another story)

[One Of The Few]

Can anyone help.
I am looking at purchasing an FN and want to try and model it on my old service rifle. All I am short of is the correct colour of paints.
Does anyone have details of what colour swatch codes I might use to purchase the correct - authentic colours. I would be looking at paint suppliers in the US or Canada
Any assistance Greatly appreciated - will post photos of the finished product

[John Cronin]

Hi John,
The Protected Villages in Rhodesia were, in the main, pretty much self-sufficient. Yes the inhabitants had to farm their crops outside the wire , but inside were shops, clinics , schools, local Council offices etc and in one case where I served in the Kotwa area we even had an airstrip (handy for the Red Cross!) , so this would give you an idea of the overall size. The locals could come and go as they pleased between 6am to 6pm and were subject to perfunctorily gate searches only. We rarely had locals abscond although we had a few stonkings so clearly there was a degree of collaboration.
My view is that the PVs were initiated much too late in the conflict and by that time the terrs had a reasonably good presence in the area and total reliance upon the local populace was not so critical to them in any case.
The basis was on the Malayan design and concept of course but in many ways the Rhodesian one was more superior and effective....given the circumstances...dont forget only us, the Portuguese and the the S. Africans (up to a point) were fighting the good fight. In Malaya the Brits had the support of most of the Western World.
By late 1978 the European presence in the PVs was all but non-existent, and the control was left to Africans in the Guard Force.....by that time European farmers and standard COIN reponsibilities were considered much more important.

Hi GGP,

It was a shame that the PVs did not receive more support from the government earlier in the war, say around 1973 or 1974, when it would have made a difference, because really, by 1978, as you point out, when Salisbury finally did throw in the towel, it had pretty much defaulted on any attempt to recapture the initiative in the rural areas. Imagine just signing off on that much of the country and hoping for the best in the more urban areas. That should tell you that the war was definitely lost by that point and the strategy out of COMOPS was essentially one of fighting to install a sympathetic African government which would not look unfavorably upon the European community. And I will say this: anyone who had the guts to serve in a PV out there in the middle of the gun-gin with his can on the wire every night just waiting to get hit was a better man than I. You have my deepest respect.

[KeithNell]

Can anyone help.
I am looking at purchasing an FN and want to try and model it on my old service rifle. All I am short of is the correct colour of paints.
Does anyone have details of what colour swatch codes I might use to purchase the correct - authentic colours. I would be looking at paint suppliers in the US or Canada
Any assistance Greatly appreciated - will post photos of the finished product

I dont know that there were standard colour paints that were used by individuals to paint their weapons and kit, but I do remember mixing paints myself to match colurs of our camoflaged clothing. In fact, Ive just camoflaged a bar fridge for my bush pub by mixing paints the same colours as Rhodie camoflage kit and its turned out perfectly! Use matt paint.

[Nzhou]

Whether we liked it or not I will portray history as accurately as possible. So I wont slant my films to how glorious white supremist armies are (if you get my drift?). If you have seen dead people "floppies" or seen a dead mate you will understand my sentiments.

JJ I don't get your drift....even if you wanted to portray the Rhodesian Army as a "glorious white supremist army" you would be far from the truth. Perhaps you ought to take your cameras and film bears in China rather than concern yourself about Rhodesia's history. At least with bears you will have a better chance of getting it right!

[One Of The Few]

I dont know that there were standard colour paints that were used by individuals to paint their weapons and kit, but I do remember mixing paints myself to match colurs of our camoflaged clothing. In fact, Ive just camoflaged a bar fridge for my bush pub by mixing paints the same colours as Rhodie camoflage kit and its turned out perfectly! Use matt paint.

Keith - I can't speak for others but at 2 Indep we were issued paint from the maintenance workshops - they used this paint for vehicle repairs etc. So, that said... I guess I should be asking for any info on the colours used for camo on our vehicles.
Again - any help would be appreciated.
Would enjoy seeing some photo's of your bush pub if have the inclination to post.

[jeff jedi]

JJ I don't get your drift....even if you wanted to portray the Rhodesian Army as a "glorious white supremist army" you would be far from the truth. Perhaps you ought to take your cameras and film bears in China rather than concern yourself about Rhodesia's history. At least with bears you will have a better chance of getting it right!

My point is that the Rhodesian army and military services consisted of white and black men. both who served with a lot of dedication and hardship. It wasnt an "all white army fighting the terrible blacks".
I worked with a lot of RAR guys who deserved better recognition that they got. Also a lot of gooks were mislead through ignorance that they would have a better lot after in a new Zimbabwe. History has proven otherwise. I dont hate Africans either although as a group of people they have caused me personally a lot of hardship in my life. And as a born and bred Rhodie (Now Zimbo) I probably can do and would like to believe I can do a better job than a pom or a yank.
Cheers.
Jeff

[KeithNell]

My point is that the Rhodesian army and military services consisted of white and black men. both who served with a lot of dedication and hardship. It wasnt an "all white army fighting the terrible blacks".
I worked with a lot of RAR guys who deserved better recognition that they got. Also a lot of gooks were mislead through ignorance that they would have a better lot after in a new Zimbabwe. History has proven otherwise. I dont hate Africans either although as a group of people they have caused me personally a lot of hardship in my life. And as a born and bred Rhodie (Now Zimbo) I probably can do and would like to believe I can do a better job than a pom or a yank.
Cheers.
Jeff

Well Jeff, your explanation clear things up and thank you for that - I was also taken back by the "white supremist" implication ...problem with expressing views here is that the point being made isnt always sent or received as it was intended, and then we understandably get flak... As long as it doesnt get personal, its okay to say how you feel. I share your views in this posting.

[KeithNell]

Keith - I can't speak for others but at 2 Indep we were issued paint from the maintenance workshops - they used this paint for vehicle repairs etc. So, that said... I guess I should be asking for any info on the colours used for camo on our vehicles.
Again - any help would be appreciated.
Would enjoy seeing some photo's of your bush pub if have the inclination to post.

About 3 years ago, I was defrauded by an American con artist (operates internationally) out of a lovely home on a large property and was almost left penniless. A friend allocated an area on his rural property for me where I've steadily built up a bush camp that has all the amenities one could want for outdoor living. Wouldnt have known how to do that without previous experiences from the Rhodesian bush war. Sure I will send you photos....need a little time. Cheers...