The F-4 Phantom II Turns 50

[BlackFlag]

I personally think it is one of the most intimidating planes ever produced. It looks like a big flying Spade.

[santana]

Does anyone know how the F-4 did Air to Air with the Vietnam Mig-15, and Mig-21?

With both the Phantom perform well, but the was a leak. initialy the phantom was designed without a cannon. After the first dogfights in the Vietnam skies the and the weakness of the air to air missiles the pilots recomended to the desigers the need of a cannon. First they desing a Cannon Pod under the Phantom fuselage (GAU-4 20mm Vulcan
M61A1/M61A2 20mm Automatic Gun), later this same cannon system was colocated under the F-4 nose.

Here a few Phantom pictures







GAU-4 20mm Vulcan
M61A1/M61A2 20mm Automatic Gun
Link:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m61.htm

[Dling]

Lots of guns:

[chefjavier]

Santana:
Like always thanks for the information and pictures. I love the potrait of the Japanese Sun. Do you know the squadron?

[Dling]

Santana:
Like always thanks for the information and pictures. I love the potrait of the Japanese Sun. Do you know the squadron?

VF-111 Sundowners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-111

[chefjavier]

Awesome! Great Pictures!!!!!!!

[santana]

VF-111 Sundowners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-111

Correct

A McDonnellDouglas F-4B Phantom II (BuNo 149430) of fighter squadron VF-111 Sundowners about to be launched from the aircraft carrier USS Coral Sea (CVA-43) during a deployment to Vietnam in 1971/72. The F-4B is armed with AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles and Mk 82 (500 lb/227 kg) bombs. The relatively small weapons load was typical for Coral Sea due to the limited catapult capacity.

The tail of a US NavyF-14A Tomcat, belonging to VF-111, the "Sundowners".

[chefjavier]

Santana did the F-14 had the tiger theme painted in the front?

[santana]

Santana did the F-14 had the tiger theme painted in the front?

yes, I seen several plastic models that it had so, But its tiger theme or Shark them?

A link

http://www.topedge.com/alley/squadron/pac/vf111his.htm

an F-14 from the VF-111 Squadron


VF-111 F-14A firing a Phoenix

[santana]

[curlyboy]

Does anyone know how the F-4 did Air to Air with the Vietnam Mig-15, and Mig-21?

The phantom did well considering both were lighter dogfighters and the phantom weighed more than both together.

The general consensus with is the phantom would have done better if it had a gun earlier (and in all models) as the missile fired to kill ratios were enormous.

But considering what it was up against it could have been worse.

curlyboy

[Stainless Steel Rat]

To me, an F15 or F16 looks the part of a scalpel or razor......the F4 Phantom looks like a bloody sledgehammer.

Love it and concur wholeheartedly. Kinda like what Tom Clancy said about the AH-64 Apache copter "You are not going to see this in the sky doing the traffic reports."

I lived in St. Louis, MO in the 1980's-90's and used to drive out to watch flight operations at Lambert St. Louis airport. There was a lot right at the end of the runway (now gone due to airport expansion). We plane lovers would occasionally see a F-16 or -18 leave from the Boeing facility there, but when the National guard took off in their F-4's, two-by-two, growling, snarling, SCREAMING over our heads....well, it was special.

F-4's, BUFFS and Hueys; aircraft that span the generations.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

The aircraft simply looks badazz.

[Avon]

Does anyone know how the F-4 did Air to Air with the Vietnam Mig-15, and Mig-21?

The phantom did well considering both were lighter dogfighters and the phantom weighed more than both together.
The general consensus with is the phantom would have done better if it had a gun earlier (and in all models) as the missile fired to kill ratios were enormous.
curlyboy

True, the F-4 would have had a higher kill ratio had it had a cannon from the beginning but, that was not the trend back then. The MiG-21 was designed without a cannon! So was the Mirage III initially but, in the design (unlike the Phantom) provisions were made to make the cannon a part of the fighter in the future full production models.
The Soviet AF was the first to change their minds due to the poor performance of their missiles. The French soon added cannons to the Mirage III for one thing, the IsAF refused to purchase Mirage III's without a cannon. It proved to be a large factor for Israel's air superiority in its conflicts with Arab neighbors. The F-4 was the last of the three to have a cannon and it wasn't until the 1968 bombing halt over North Viet Nam, after the Ault Report came out along with some data the USAF had compiled. During the 'halt' the USAF concentrated on hardware improvements (hardware, radars, etc.) in their effort to improve their kill ratio. "Steve" Ritchie said, he came back from second tour in Viet Nam as an ace then got DACT/ACM training! Yeah, he became an ace on his instincts as a pilot. The USN focused during the bombing halt on the training aspect of aerial combat performance and showed a significant improvement in the low kill ratio (as pointed out by the Ault Report). To that end, they started TOP GUN.
When the bombing halt, over the North stopped.... initially the USAF's kill ratio dropped to almost 1:1, for two months then went up, despite weapon's improvements! The USN's TOP GUN focused on the training and their kill ratio zoomed up immediately to 13:1!!

I looked at the statistics at ACIG, for the data on aerial kills over Viet Nam. Before the bombing halt (approximately) 44 of the 120 kills were with cannons -36.6%. True these were A-1's, F-8's, F-100's, F-105's making the kills. All the other kills were with missiles. After the bombing halts, only 9 of the 108 kills were with cannons -all USAF! The big difference was because the bulk of the kills were by the F-4 Phantoms and the effects of TOP GUN. Another large factor F-4's replacing the F-8's, F-105's, and the USAF's efforts on hardware improvements was also helping.

There are videos of the F-4 being used by the Blue Angels! URL;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX1-I...eature=related

What ever faults that were perceived in the F-4 Phantom 2, using the proper tactics made the F-4 competitive in ACM with any fighter of that time.

ACIG Stats URL;
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_243.shtml ___ Part #1 US Kills Over Viet Nam
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_244.shtml ___ Part #2

Enjoy -Adrian

[-Max2-]

Wow cant believe this thread is still alive...



Some Vietnam F-4 "MiG Killers" artworks :


The famous VF-96 F-4J, callsign "Showtime 100", flown by Randy Cunningham and Willie Drescoll on 10 May 1972. They got their third, fourth and fifth MiG kills (3x MiG-17s downed in a single day) in this aircraft but unfortunately were shootdown by a SA-2 SAM just a few minutes after. They ejected over the South China Sea and were rescued.


F-4D flown by John Madden and Chuck Debellevue shooting down a pair of MiG-19s on 9 September 1972.


VF-161 F-4B in a dogfight with a NVAF MiG-19.


Steve Ritchie's F-4E shooting down its second MiG on 8 July 1972.


Colonel Robin Olds F-4C.


Robin Olds F-4C rolling on a MiG-21 during Operation Bolo in 1967.