Requesting a list of covert operations by Soviet pilots during the Cold War
Hi I'm always interested in Soviet Military but the only wars they have fought were WW2 and Afghanistan.
However from reading articles / History Channel I've found out that Soviet pilots intervened during the Korean War and War of Attrition (between Israel and Egypt). IAF claimed to have shot down 5 Russian piloted Mig's, but how can they confirm that they were Russian piloted? Were Russian piloted MIGS painted with Soviet insignias or Egyptian insignias?
I wonder were there similar cases by Soviet pilots during the Cold War? Like Vietnam?
Thanks!
Edit: That's for the quick reply! I've also heard that Soviet piloted Mig-25's intercepted American fighters during the Gulf War, is that true?
Soviet pilots successfully overflew Israel and performed various reconnaissance duties a number of times in MiG-25s based in Egypt. The conditions needed to maintain secrecy were reportedly difficult to establish, for example no Egyptian personnel were trusted near or around the base where the MiG-25s were located, because of the effectiveness of the Israeli intelligence in piercing Egyptian ranks.
Yep. In the book Foxbats over Dimona, the authors say the MiG-25s were based in Yemen, flown to a base in Egypt, refueled, then flew their reconnaissance missions. In some cases, Soviet pilots were identified because they were speaking in Russian, in other cases, when they were shot down and pilots/evidence was recovered. As for the Gulf War, the Iraqis had their own MiG-25s, one of which appears to have shot down an F/A-18.Originally Posted by TheRussian1
As the Soviet Union did not exist when the Gulf War kicked off I highly doubt this happened.
Epic fail!
Soviet Union was disestablished the 26 December of 1991.
The Persian Gulf War lasted from the 2 of August of 1990 to the 28 of february of 1991.
No Russian piloted MiG-25s were shot down I believe, over Israel. However, I also dont remember if the Syrians or Egyptians flew MiG-25s themselves.
Bah! Them Commies were circling the toilet bowl in '90 anyhowEpic fail!
Soviet Union was disestablished the 26 December of 1991.
The Persian Gulf War lasted from the 2 of August of 1990 to the 28 of february of 1991.
They weren't just randomly shut down in a regular dogfight. IAF formed a special team made of Russian speakers just for this purpose, to observe and listen what the Soviets are doing. When they were positively identified as actual active pilots, and not just advisors, IAF made a plan to ambush and shoot them down. 5 MIG-21 were shot down, 3 pilots safely ejected and landed, 2 were killed.
It was a moral boost for the pilots more then anything, because AFAIK Soviet pilots just patrolled Egyptian air-space and didn't actually take part in the dog-fights.
Here's an interesting article in Hebrew about the preparations for this operation:
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART/969/882.html
Avihu Ben-Nun, who actually took part in the operation and managed to shoot down one of the MIG's, is a former commander of the first Phantom squadron and later on the commander of the IAF, apparently met one of the Soviet pilots that were in Egypt in that time, during his visit to one of the Russian Air Force museums.
i saw some of those documentaries, so whatever's not mentioned is obviously still classified.
you're also incorrect as Russians have fought in 2 chechen wars.
I meant the Soviet military, not Russian
of course the Soviets fought against the Chinese after the Sino-Soviet split, but it's merely a war but a border conflict
My great grandfather was a Jew in Shanghai, although I'm part Jewish I don't read Hebrew.
and just an extra question, How come the Soviets were supplying arms to Anti-Israeli arab nations? I thought Soviet communists officials / Bolsheviks were all Jews
Study moar. Here is some info for you.
Lenin wrote; “Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)
But in the same article Lenin made it clear that the Bolsheviks did not expect religion immediately to disappear, even after the seizure of power. Engels, to whom Lenin refers, had established this some forty years previously in Anti-Duhring where he wrote:
“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”
http://www.marxist.com/religion-sovi...on170406-6.htm
I haven't independently verified the source or quotes. But it seems legit, and if you want to prove me wrong then please do so.
Lol! Classic.
It's a long story but you are correct the top leaders were alomost entierly jews, Marx was Jewish also.
The shot down of five Soviet jets in Egypt is not a myth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition, 1970: A large-scale dogfight, involving eight to twenty MiG-21s (besides the initial eight, other MiGs are "scrambled", but it is unclear if they reach the battle in time), eight Mirage III and eight F-4 Phantom II jets takes place, west of the Suez Canal. Ambushing their opponents, the Israelis down four Soviet-piloted MiGs, and, according to some sources, a fifth is hit and crashes en route back to its base. Three Soviet pilots are killed, while the IAF suffers no casualties except a damaged Mirage
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_263.shtmlEventually, the situation became unbearable for the Israelis: the gloves were now to be taken off. Free from defending neuralgic areas, and with the IDF/AF reluctant to engage MiGs it was not sure if they were flown by the Soviets or Egyptians, the EAF was now able to hit enemy positions in Sinai very hard, while simultaneously moving its SAM-sites closer to the Suez, thus closing the sky over potential crossing points for IDF/AF aircraft. The losses in Phantoms were also painful and there was no clear solution for the new SAM-threat. Therefore, on 25 July, the IDF/AF began planning a new ambush, this time specifically planned to lure Soviet MiG-21s in front of three sections of Mirages and Phantoms, flown by hand-picked pilots, and thus make the situation “clear”.
On 30 July, shortly after 1400hrs, two F-4Es bombed the Egyptian radar station at Sohana, in the Gulf of Suez. Four high-flying Mirages were nearby, with four additional Phantoms at low level, all waiting for the Soviets to appear. Further to the rear four additional Mirages were positioned as well. When there was no reaction from the Soviets, the front section of Mirages penetrated deeper into Egypt: almost 12 minutes after the initial attack, the Soviets finally reacted. The first to be scrambled were eight MiG-21s of the 135th IAP, led by Capt. Kamencev. They expected to clash with a group of Skyhawks or Phantoms that were apparently underway towards Cairo: in fact, the Mirages were only dragging them in front of Phantoms. As the pursuit continued, four additional MiGs were scrambled from Kom Awshim, and now the rear quartet of Mirages joined the fray as well: in response, the Soviets scrambled four additional MiGs from Kutamiyah. Aviem Sela later provided the following account in an interview for the Israeli press:
- I was a number two of a section of Phantoms; we and two Mirages were up against about ten MiGs. It was little unsettling to see so many aircraft at once, so many fuel tanks being jettisoned all over the place. I didn’t care about numerical superiority – I was just afraid someone might bump into my aircraft!
One of Mirages (flown by Asher Snir) fired an air-to-air missile seconds after the battle began. The missile hit a MiG and set it on fire. The pilot bailed out; the aircraft went into a spin and dropped like a stone from 30.000ft. The Russian pilot’s parachute opened right away – it’s not supposed to: chutes are designed to open automatically at 10.000ft, so their wearers don’t freeze or suffocate at high altitudes. But, this pilot used the manual apparatus and opened the chute himself! Maybe he didn’t want to be taken alive... or maybe he just didn’t know any better.
Now some more of our aircraft had joined the battle; the Russians no longer had numerical superiority. I started looking for a MiG to kill. Finally, I found one – its pilot making a right turn, trying to close in on my number one. I broke to the right – the MiG left my number one and started chasing me! We stuck together for a while, dropping to about 15.000ft; at that point he was only about 150 meters from me. I could see the pilot’s helmet clearly.
By this time I’d realized the Russian pilot was inexperienced; he didn’t know how to handle his aircraft in a combat situation. At 15.000ft he proved this fact by trying to escape in a steep dive to 7.00ft. All we had to do was follow him and lock our radar onto him – and fire a missile. There was a tremendous explosion – but the MiG came out of the cloud of smoke apparently unharmed. That made me mad and I fired a second missile - which turned out to be unnecessary. The Russian aircraft had, in fact, been severely damaged by the first missile; suddenly, it burst into flames and fell apart. By the time the second missile reached it, it wasn’t there any more.
Out of the five Russian pilots shot down, one ejected safely and was recovered; one died under his parachute, and Captains Zuravyev, Yurchenko and Yakovlev were killed.
At the end of the battle formations from both sides became dispersed: the Soviets were attempting to disengage, while the Israelis were at the time still not especially good in providing mutual support. The Soviets fired a number of R-3S’ in these moments, but all of these missed. Eventually, however, Capt. Kolesovlev and Puskarskiy managed to hit the Mirage flown by Asher Snir while he was engaged with another MiG (the kill against which was never confirmed): the Israeli landed safely at Refidim.
In conclusion, there was little doubt that the Israeli plan worked: five Russians were shot down one after the other after being hit by Mirages and Phantoms successively. Except for damaging one Mirage, the Russians were given a perfect lection in modern air-to-air combat, the outcome of which consists not only from excellent and combat proven pilots or good aircraft, but also of reliable and functional weapons and combat experience, as well as good preparation and lots the support. At latest now it became completely clear who controls the air over the Suez Canal. Not that the Egyptians were very sorry for their often arrogant Russian „instructors“, but the EAF was in action only days later, again attacking Israeli SAMs and causing several air combats. The Soviets tried now several times also to set traps for the Israelis, but with exception of one Mirage being damaged in a dogfight with MiG-21s, and one Phantom by SA-3s (the pilot managed to land the badly damaged aircraft at Refidim; if this Phantom was indeed written-off, then it was the 16th Israeli loss since 1967) they obviously came away with empty hands.
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