Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Global Warming as a Security Issue

  1. #1
    **** you 20122. how goes does gaz type drunk? dricl. man Hellfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    A terra dos foguetes
    Posts
    29,397

    Default Global Warming as a Security Issue

    Surprised nobody has brought this up (yes, I searched)...

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1214...googlenews_wsj

    Global Warming as Security Issue:
    Intelligence Report Sees Threat




    WASHINGTON -- One of the biggest conundrums facing lawmakers is that solutions to global warming often hurt another of their top priorities: ensuring the availability of affordable energy, for example.
    But on Wednesday, as the U.S. intelligence agencies weighed in, they heard about the cost of doing nothing: It may incubate terrorism and civil conflict.
    Concluding that climate change will have wide-ranging impacts on U.S. security in the coming decades, a classified report complicates an already tangled debate by providing urgent new reasons to address the problem of global warming at a time when American voters are anxious about $4-a-gallon gas. Do something to lower gas prices, and you might exacerbate warming and, potentially, terrorism. Assist in the fight against global warming and risk economic hardship.


    "It does trade off," said Sarah Ladislaw, a fellow in the energy and national security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The real question out there is: How well are people going to deal with the trade-offs?" The convergence of the increasing cost of fuel, global food shortages, global warming, and national security threats show how interconnected these transnational issues are, and policy makers need to be mindful of that, she said.


    Addressing a congressional panel Wednesday, Thomas Fingar, chief of intelligence analysis for the director of national intelligence, said environmental degradation is likely to exacerbate mounting problems in developing countries such as poverty, social tensions and weak governments.


    Those are the same issues that encourage aspiring terrorists, he said, adding such changes "could increase the pool of potential recruits" to terrorism.


    Citing the agencies' first analysis of the national impacts of climate change, Mr. Fingar said extreme weather, drought, flooding and disease could lead to major migration that can inflame tensions within and between countries. That may inflame domestic tensions "in a number of key states," he told the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. He provided potentially grave predictions for Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and Asia.


    Closer to home, analysts anticipate more severe storms, a rising demand for energy, and increased pressure on infrastructure in the U.S.


    The report gives further credibility to the rising chorus of security experts who have been warning about the impact of climate change, said Sherri Goodman, general counsel for the Center for Naval Analysis, whose report on security and climate change prompted Congress to mandate the report.
    It also gave fresh ammunition to Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill who have clashed repeatedly over the report. Last year's congressional mandate for this intelligence report sparked fierce partisan clashes, as Republicans like Michigan Rep. Pete Hoekstra, a member of the House intelligence panel, derided it for wasting intelligence resources on "bugs and bunnies."


    Partisan fights over the security impacts of climate change date back at least to the Clinton administration, when then-Vice President Al Gore launched an initiative at the Central Intelligence Agency in 1997 to study the security implications of environmental degradation, but it collapsed a few years later under political pressure from congressional Republicans.
    Democrats on Wednesday said this report resurrected the effort Mr. Gore started. The report "is a clarion call to action from the heart of our nation's security establishment," said Rep. Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts, chairman of the energy and climate change panel. California Rep. Anna Eshoo, a member of the House intelligence committee, borrowed from the administration's rhetoric, saying "we can't wait for threats to mature before deciding how to counter them."


    But Republicans said that such continued focus on climate change ignores the daily problems Americans are confronting with escalating energy costs, and used the hearing to argue for more domestic drilling and nuclear power. Clamping down on greenhouse gases, for example, could lead to higher electricity prices.


    Wisconsin Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, the top Republican on the panel, lamented that Congress was talking about global warming "as opposed to the real threats of high energy prices and economic security."


    While intelligence agencies don't normally tackle environmental issues, Mr. Fingar and other intelligence officials defended their involvement in the report, saying that intelligence officers were able to bring to bear their analytic experience and regional expertise


    One key finding, he said, was that the level of scientific understanding of climate change is not as specific as the information normally needed for a detailed intelligence analysis, especially on the regional impacts of climate change. Mr. Fingar plans three follow-on reports.


    "There are winners and losers and some of them are very big, important global players," Mr. Fingar said, adding that he would look further into the impacts on those players, but he wouldn't name specific countries beyond Russia, China, India, and the U.S.
    Any comments?

    Without getting into the science of global warming, we can still explore the implications of further effects of weather of global security. Just this year we've had two major weather and related disasters (Burmese typhoon, American flooding) that have the potential for serious security repercussions. With drought seriously affecting East Africa (again), how prepared are we for if/when things get worse?

    What are the security repercussions of weather as a whole? How did Hurricane Katrina affect American security (economically, politically?). The 2004 Tsunami?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Observe Overreact Destroy Apologize
    Posts
    4,548

    Default

    Oh joy, another global warming thread.
    I think Bangladesh is a good point in case. The country is located in a very risky place geographically and geologically speaking. There was a thread about it losing land and freshwater here. And I don't see their neighbours being very willing to accept millions of refugees.
    And then you have other problems like food production. Some regions that have traditionally been bread baskets are seeing their yields drop, while other regions will see the opposite. Governments don't like it when they have to start importing more food when their fields are drying up. How will they react? "Gee, that river valley is awfully fertile. And it's right next to our border. Why can't we take it?"
    How about freshwater? Mark my words, in the next decade, at most, we will see wars over water. "No blood for oil!" How about "No blood for water!"

  3. #3
    Senior Member LaoSexMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    20,211

    Default

    I read a similar article on CNN.com and it totally reminded me of movies like Children of Man, I am Legend or movies of the same kind and "message".

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mastermind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Nevada USA
    Posts
    6,029

    Default

    The planet and solar system have undergone way too many changes far more dramatic than this GW absurdity currently being foisted upon us. We can do all we want to reduce green house gasses that are man made...we can starve two or three billion people to death...reduce our life styles back to the days of cave men....Do all that and then have just one single volcano erupt...like Pinatubo or Mt. St Helens or Vesuvius and all the GHG we prevented in a hundred years will be spewed into the atmosphere in a single day!

    This is the absurdity of the global warming doomsayers...prevent volcanos, prevent the sun from going through it's regular heating and cooling cycles..prevent one Ice Age....prevent a snow storm or a thunder storm...or how about a single bolt of lightening....then I might start to believe we can do something about "global warming".

    Until then, I think the global warming march is nothing in the world but a lame attempt at "Global Controlling" of civilized Human beings, robbing their pocketbooks, redistributing their wealth and utter destruction of their freedom.

  5. #5
    **** you 20122. how goes does gaz type drunk? dricl. man Hellfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    A terra dos foguetes
    Posts
    29,397

    Default

    You're missing the point. Whether or not global warming is happening or not, weather creates a security issue.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mastermind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Nevada USA
    Posts
    6,029

    Default

    Sure weather is a security matter...but the problem with the GW scenarios we are faced with are energy-economic rather than actual weather related.

    Presently, the economics of the political global warming fiasco are very real and extraordinarily dangerous to world peace. Tensions will naturally build and political pressure will certainly escalate as prices of food sky rocket...not for gw concerns...but for energy concerns as we are seeing right now. Placing a food commodity on par with an energy commodity as the US congress and President did last year has created an almost unstoppable escalation of world hunger, economic distress and national security problems. Undoubtedly, the blame will be shifted to "Global Warming"...the great man-made "Bogey Man" that threatenes the entire world. But, we all know this is a made-up political disaster that is almost unprecidented in our entire history.

    As was mentioned above about Bangladesh...there is no one standing by with a contenciency plan to rescue those millions. Already there is another African famine mega-disaster looming as the UN announces they have run out of money to buy extroadinarily high priced food for the "Starving Millions". I watch the news fairly close on this and hardly see a mention of the drastic measures needed to be taken by the Western nations to stop this famine.

    AS the situation worsens, and expands to become a global depression and the luxury items are suddenly gone into the wind...what happens then? Secuirty follows to mean not "lusury" problems of ideology and politics...but security associated with adamant, rib-showing, gut growling national survival.

    Am I the only one who has noticed a sudden "displacement" of the "Starving Africans" news stories? They are getting harder and harder to find...the faces of the fly enshrouded babies, bloated bellies and swollen joints so familair to us from the 80's and 90's seem to be passe' now in favor of close-up shots of struggling penguins and exhausted sea bound polar bears. It's a mega-mind game of fantastic proportions that is going on.

    No matter what...the near future will not be pleasant for anyone. It is an energy/economic problem, that is cloaked in a sly "Global Warming" fantasy that is designed to get the masses of the wealthy class nations to meekly accept their own demise and to quietly walk into the tyranny of poverty and want...at least they will be helping "save Mother Gaia"...

    At the bottom line, it is a conscience massaging problem. We will have our energy...and we will have it at what ever price is called for...and that includes human beings. Are we not already putting Ethiopians into our gas tanks? Are we not putting food that otherwise would be declared surplus and cheaply available to them into our corn mash ethanol digestors to be made into $4.00 a gallon Hummer juice?

    A sci/fi novel could not be written to be more chilling. Welcome to the 21st century. We will dream of the good-old days with Adolph, Tojo and Uncle Joe.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mackie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Stuttgart
    Posts
    5,915

    Default

    Difficult.

    How old are weather charts? 130 years? Global warming is a point but also without this threat we should be prepared against catastrophes.
    Compared to the history of our planet we know nothing.

    But what we know is that reducing emissions slow down the impact.


    A small country in Europe knows how to handle with extreme weather conditions:


  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastermind View Post
    Sure weather is a security matter...but the problem with the GW scenarios we are faced with are energy-economic rather than actual weather related.

    Presently, the economics of the political global warming fiasco are very real and extraordinarily dangerous to world peace. Tensions will naturally build and political pressure will certainly escalate as prices of food sky rocket...not for gw concerns...but for energy concerns as we are seeing right now. Placing a food commodity on par with an energy commodity as the US congress and President did last year has created an almost unstoppable escalation of world hunger, economic distress and national security problems. Undoubtedly, the blame will be shifted to "Global Warming"...the great man-made "Bogey Man" that threatenes the entire world. But, we all know this is a made-up political disaster that is almost unprecidented in our entire history.

    As was mentioned above about Bangladesh...there is no one standing by with a contenciency plan to rescue those millions. Already there is another African famine mega-disaster looming as the UN announces they have run out of money to buy extroadinarily high priced food for the "Starving Millions". I watch the news fairly close on this and hardly see a mention of the drastic measures needed to be taken by the Western nations to stop this famine.

    AS the situation worsens, and expands to become a global depression and the luxury items are suddenly gone into the wind...what happens then? Secuirty follows to mean not "lusury" problems of ideology and politics...but security associated with adamant, rib-showing, gut growling national survival.

    Am I the only one who has noticed a sudden "displacement" of the "Starving Africans" news stories? They are getting harder and harder to find...the faces of the fly enshrouded babies, bloated bellies and swollen joints so familair to us from the 80's and 90's seem to be passe' now in favor of close-up shots of struggling penguins and exhausted sea bound polar bears. It's a mega-mind game of fantastic proportions that is going on.

    No matter what...the near future will not be pleasant for anyone. It is an energy/economic problem, that is cloaked in a sly "Global Warming" fantasy that is designed to get the masses of the wealthy class nations to meekly accept their own demise and to quietly walk into the tyranny of poverty and want...at least they will be helping "save Mother Gaia"...

    At the bottom line, it is a conscience massaging problem. We will have our energy...and we will have it at what ever price is called for...and that includes human beings. Are we not already putting Ethiopians into our gas tanks? Are we not putting food that otherwise would be declared surplus and cheaply available to them into our corn mash ethanol digestors to be made into $4.00 a gallon Hummer juice?

    A sci/fi novel could not be written to be more chilling. Welcome to the 21st century. We will dream of the good-old days with Adolph, Tojo and Uncle Joe.
    Do you have any degrees? And if so what are they? Im not saying you're not right in some cases but you're also wrong in alot. Plus you're underestimating the potential problems caused by climate change and the fact that society is gravely ill prepared to do anything about it.
    Last edited by Backwoodshunter; 06-28-2008 at 04:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Vorian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    1,953

    Default

    The planet and solar system have undergone way too many changes far more dramatic than this GW absurdity currently being foisted upon us.
    Since we are never going to stop emitting gases, we will never know if we cause it or not. The truth is our climate IS going through some change.

  10. #10
    Senior Member brainplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackie View Post
    Difficult.

    But what we know is that reducing emissions slow down the impact.
    Actually no we don't. We THINK it will but so far there is no real evidence other than computer generated weather models. And those weather models and how the algorithms are input is part of some serious scientific debate.

  11. #11
    Falcons FTW Kilgor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Joh Country
    Posts
    13,505

    Default

    IMO the rising cost of oil is of far more concern that global warming. We've already seen riots and protests about the cost of grains and oil which such people's spend a large percentage of their meager income on.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •