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Thread: Rafale News

  1. #526
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    More interesting ... but still in french , an analyse about Flightglobal article

    http://www.dedefensa.org/article-le_...0_11_2009.html

    google translation

    http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

  2. #527
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    Default Rafale beats F-35 & F-22 in Flight International

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...2-in-flig.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Trimble
    The headline I believe is justified by his statement that he would choose the Rafale, bar none, over any aircraft, for any combat situation. He clearly prefers the Rafale over the F-22/F-35-class, whether he's enjoyed the opportunity to fly them or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeb
    Perhaps, but still...we're always conditioned to prefer the known over the unknown, and I think it's worth noting that nowhere does Collins actually say the Rafale is better than the F-22/35, just that he'd choose the Rafale as it's the best *he's ever flown*. That's a key distinction, wouldn't you agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trimble
    Nope: "If I had to go into combat, on any mission, against anyone, I would, without question, choose the Rafale."
    Pretty strong words here...

    Another interesting piece of info:

    http://www.theengineer.co.uk/Article...t+recorder.htm


    During his RAF career Collins rose to the rank of squadron leader, completing two frontline tours of duty flying Harriers in Germany and serving in the Falklands in 1982, flying Sea Harriers while on detachment with the navy on Illustrious. Following two years as a pilot and later team leader with the Red Arrows, in 1989 he qualified as an experimental military test pilot and was appointed Officer Commanding of the Aerospace Research Test Squadron at DRA Bedford where he worked on the Joint Strike Fighter.

    In 1993 Collins opted out of the military, moving to Fokker where he worked on the F60 and F70. After the company went bankrupt in 1996 he spent two years in Germany with Dornier before returning to the UK, joining KLM as a test pilot in 1998.

    There he was promoted to head the introduction of the company's Flight Operations Data Monitoring system that records the events and exceedences of each flight, allowing operators to map trends and create a valuable safety tool.

    After three years Collins left to set up his own independent flight testing company. But this fell foul of the global downturn in aviation following September 11.
    I thought the Joint Strike Fighter program started in 1994 or so? Perhaps this was a precursor?

  3. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke2 View Post
    Pretty strong words here...
    Especially since he says:
    ...I barely scratched the surface of its sensor and weapon capabilities.

  4. #529
    Senior Member Alpheus's Avatar
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    Yeah, and a Dodge is better then a Ferrari, simply because I haven't driven the Ferrari.
    Maybe he should wait until he's actually flown some of the other 4/5th gen planes before making his decision.

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Yeah, and a Dodge is better then a Ferrari, simply because I haven't driven the Ferrari.
    Maybe he should wait until he's actually flown some of the other 4/5th gen planes before making his decision.
    No, you are looking at this in the wrong manner.

    They way pros evaluate fighter aircrafts is that they have a list of requirements. Then they look at each aircraft and check to see whether it meets the requirements or not.

    If your Dodge meets your requirements to a car then you may use the Dodge -- that does not mean that you could not have enjoyed a Ferrari more (if your wallet could allow it...).

    What Collins is saying (albeit in a "journualistic" fashion) is that in his opinion, the Rafale meets (and in some cases exceeds) all his requirements to a multirole fighter jet; he believes it can complete any mission he expects a fighter to be able to handle.

    Perhaps there are other fighters out there that also meet the requirements, but that's not necessarily the main point.....

    Pros never go for the "best"; they see what meets the requirements... if more than one fighter meet the requirements well then there are some criteria to pick a winner; other factors like cost would then become more important.

    It is always fun to compare fighters and see which is "best" but that's not how it works in the real world...

  6. #531
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    ooh its great to have finally experts landing here ...yes it's only Collins opinion but im stupid because i believe his opinion has much more value than the one of any multi-forums fanboys trying to discredit him

    Everyone is crying about Collins 'opinion but he didn't say the Rafale is better than the Gripen or the EF (lol) , he never tested them for now and we only know he's flown Tornado and mirage 2000 as recent fighter. His opinion is the rafale is the best fighter he's flown for now , no more, no less.

    In fact , i think the main problem is such flight test about modern fighters are extremely rare , so i understand the frustration of people who supports another platform... Change the test, replace "Rafale" by "Gripen" or "F18" , "EF" ... and no doubts we would see exactly the same debates everywhere... with the same people .. but defending an opposite opinion
    Last edited by Olybrius; 11-11-2009 at 06:30 AM.

  7. #532
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Some interesting infos about Dassault t.o.t. offer in fx-2

    Offer includes Dassault partnership with Embraer

    Defesa@Net 10 Novembro 2009
    De São José dos Campos Sao Jose dos Campos

    Considered to be the preferred strategic partner of Brazil by President Lula, Dassault, a finalist in the competition for the purchase of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), proposed to the unrestricted transfer of technology for 67 projects in Brazil. According to Dassault, supply delivered to the Air Force Command in late October, covering more than 100% of the purchase contract of fighters, estimated at U.S. $ 4 billion.

    According to the company, the consortium has committed to make the assembly, in Brazil, 30 of the 36 fighters that will be purchased by the program F-X2, with parts manufactured in Brazil by Brazilian companies. "Faremos a montagem no Brasil a partir do sétimo caça, com linha de fabricação na Embraer", afirmou um porta-voz. "We will do the assembly in Brazil from the seventh game, with the manufacturing line at Embraer," said a spokesman.

    He said the consortium expects at least 50% of the parts of the Rafale is produced in Brazil until the final delivery of 36 aircraft under this first contract, but there is a possibility in the future, the FAB to buy 120 fighter jets. . "We not only small parts, but also structural parts such as wings, which will be manufactured by Embraer, if we win this contract," he said.

    The president of the Aerospace Industries Association of Brazil (AIAB), Walter Bartels points out that the new projects for the acquisition of defense equipment should promote technological autonomy of the Brazilian industry. "The process of technology transfer occurs when there is innovation or technological development within the industry. "
    Bartels cites the case of the AMX, done in cooperation with Italian companies and the government. "Brazil has paid 30% of its development and dominated 100% of the plane."

    The industrial cooperation program, plus the package of technology transfer, proposed by Dassault, provides for the creation of three thousand direct and indirect jobs in Brazil, for a period of 10 years. This figure, according to the executive, may be extended to 24 thousand, with the manufacturing activities of the fighters in the aerospace industries of Singapore and also the transfer of technology through the creation of many products.

    Embraer, according to the executive, is the leading Rafale cooperation of the consortium, together with the Department of Aerospace Science and Technology (DCTA), both in Sao Jose dos Campos (SP). As a manufacturer and integrator of aerospace systems, the Company will have full autonomy to lead in cooperation with the Brazilian industry, adaptations and improvements in the future Rafale aircraft and its systems," the Consortium Rafale in the document.
    Cooperate with Embraer, according to a spokesman for Dassault, will expand the knowledge of the company, giving it autonomy to perform independently, the design of the next generation of Brazilian fighters. "The Brazilian industry and especially the Company, acquired new technological capabilities with the AMX program. With the Rafale they can go far beyond what won with AMX," says the executive.

    As promised by French President Nicolas Sarkozy during his visit to Brazil on September 7, the consortium Rafale reinforces its interest in supporting the development of the KC-390 freighter, and CEO. This partnership can be accomplished by the transfer of technology in the field of key domain and highly sensitive Systems Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) .It is important to emphasize that the technology DFCS are dominated by very few companies in the world and desired by many," said the spokesman.

    The transfer of sensitive technologies, which Brazil does not have the domain, is also one of the highlights of the Consortium's bid Rafale,said the spokesman for the company. The approval for unrestricted transfer of technology, according to the executive, has been officially notified to the Air Force Command by French authorities.

    Among the technologies considered essential offered by firms of the Dassault consortium : aeromecanica integration of arms and cocoons (?), engineering of the airframe, software, radar and mission system technologies of digital flight control, engine integration, applications pyrotechnic space, network design systems unmanned aerial vehicles, among others.

    http://translate.google.cf/translate...istory_state0=

    Original link for those who know portuguese, not easy to fully understand the last paragraph
    http://www.defesanet.com.br/01_lz/fx2/01_vl_10nov09.htm

  8. #533
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    09/11/2009 - -- 20h37 20:37
    Jobim said that fighters are not "jelly beans" and transfer of technology is more important than price
    MÁRCIO FALCÃO Márcio F.
    da Folha Online , em Brasília Folha Online, in Brasilia
    full article here:

    http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/b...6u649973.shtml
    http://translate.google.cf/translate...istory_state0=

  9. #534
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    11/11/2009 - -- 18h59 18:59
    Lula meet Sarkozy in Paris to discuss climate and fighters

    With an invitation from French President Nicolas Sarkozy, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva arrives next Saturday in Paris. The trip was agreed on Wednesday during a phone call that lasted nearly ten minutes
    ...
    The Brazilian government must announce by the end of the month the result of the bidding for the purchase of aircraft for the FAB (Brazilian Air Force). Are in contention F-18 Super Hornet Boeing, the Swedish Gripen NG Saab and French Dassault's Rafale. The French are the favorites.

    In the last meeting between Lula and Sarkozy on September 7, the Brazilian government publicly announced interest in the proposal of Dassault. According to Minister Nelson Jobim (Defense), will be taken into account four factors for choosing the winning bidder.
    "It is the operational capability of each of these, what kind of science and technology being proposed by the three, the commitment to national capacity building and the fourth is the cost of equipment and logistics. These are the four elements that will decide," he said.
    ...
    google translation from:
    http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/b...6u651013.shtml

  10. #535
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    Order for 60 Rafale

    Source: French Ministry of Defence; issued Nov. 12, 2009)
    (Issued in French; unofficial translation by defense-aerospace.com)

    France’s defense ministry has approved funding for the 4th Rafale production batch, and will award the contract for the 60 new aircraft by year-end. (French AF photo)
    French Defence Minister Hervé Morin approved, during the Nov.12 meeting of the Ministerial Committee on Investments, an order for 60 Rafale combat aircraft for the Navy and Air Force.

    This order, funded in the 2009 Finance Act, brings to 180 the number of Rafale on order.

    As provided for in the multi-year military planning law, the delivery dates of the aircraft will be adjusted as necessary to accommodate export contracts. This ensures optimal organization of the production line, both for domestic needs and for those countries to which France has proposed a partnership in the Rafale program.

    These latest aircraft will be delivered with the new active antenna radar and enhanced self-protection suite

    The contract will be awarded by the Directorate General of Armaments (DGA) before the end of the year to the main manufacturers involved in the Rafale program: Dassault Aviation, Thales, Safran and MBDA. Over a hundred companies of all sizes will also benefit from this order.

    The Rafale is an omnirole aircraft designed to ensure all of the missions currently performed by different types of fighters: air defense and air superiority, ground attack, anti-ship warfare, close air support, reconnaissance, and nuclear strike.

    Existing in single-seat and two-seat versions, Rafale operates from ground bases or from an aircraft carrier. It entered service with the French Navy in 2004 and with the French air force in 2006. The Rafale has been engaged in combat missions flown from the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle and in Afghanistan.


    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...60-rafale.html

  11. #536
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Wink


    only 2£95

  12. #537
    Senior Member Chimera's Avatar
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    I find all this communication over the Rafale to be very suspicious, especially from a British newspaper.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some people in the UK were trying to question the JSF program or at least put more pressure on it.

  13. #538
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    you mean a plot ? don't know but that's true more and more sceptics make their voices heard

  14. #539
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    Rafale is a fine plane but this whole thing has a bit of "wag the dog" to it... Lots of weird things going on in this industry.

  15. #540
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Lobbies fighting hard in Brazil too

    Boeing accuses the French of "intellectual dishonesty"
    http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/b...6u648515.shtml
    http://translate.google.fr/translate...telectual%2522

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