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Thread: Rafale News

  1. #706
    Member Nansouty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olybrius View Post
    Brazil, UAE , Kuwait ..not Switzerland ?




    http://economia.uol.com.br/ultimas-n...ao-brasil.jhtm
    The current tax-evasion and spying scandal will probably put a huge brake on this one :


    http://www.france24.com/en/20091216-...d-evasion-hsbc

  2. #707
    Senior Member Chimera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nansouty View Post
    The current tax-evasion and spying scandal will probably put a huge brake on this one :
    3 billion € in tax evasion.

    I will not say how many Rafales we could have bought for ourselves with this amount of money.

  3. #708
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    2009: the year of almost
    [...]
    It was also the year of almost for the Dassault Rafale. Almost there, not quite yet. That Rafale will eventually win export contracts is near certainty; the extent and size of those contracts remain in question at this point. Nothing is certain, and Rafale might still experience unpleasant surprises although Brazil has expressed its intentions to procure the aircraft for its FX-2 program.

    While Rafale is the logical choice for Brazil on many levels, is also a risk for the Brazilian Air Force. Can the French deliver on the promises? Can Rafale become the force multiplier it has demonstrated significant potential for? We believe so, as there are many uncertainties about the two other competitors (Gripen and F-18E) in competition for this program. Surprisingly, Rafale might appear to be the lower risk proposition for Brazil at this juncture.

    The Boeing F-18E is a very capable and mature weapon system, superior to its competitors in many critical areas, but there are too many issues pertaining to export control and technology transfers. These issues are paramount, and risk compromising the aircraft’s chances unless they can be addressed to the satisfaction of the Brazilian Air Force.

    As far as Saab is concerned, Gripen is a strong, capable and, highly affordable system but Gripen NG remains a paper airplane that has significant ways to go. The fact that Gripen NG requires development may also prove valuable to Brazil, as it would allow Brazilian industry to participate closely in the development and manufacturing of this aircraft, perhaps…
    [...]
    http://g2globalsolutions.com/review/?p=3177

  4. #709
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
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    Rafale : Dassault aurait réduit de 40 % le prix de vente au Brésil
    LE MONDE | 05.01.10 | 18h18

    Le constructeur aéronautique Dassault, en compétition pour fournir 36 avions de chasse Rafale au Brésil, a dû diminuer son prix de vente de 40 % pour augmenter ses chances, affirme, vendredi 6 novembre, Libération. Dassault se serait engagé à aligner le prix sur celui payé par l'armée française, soit 50 millions d'euros l'unité, contre une offre originelle de 96 millions.

    http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/artic...3685_3234.html
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m

  5. #710
    Senior Member Herman the II's Avatar
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    Who will burden the difference? Hardly imaginable that Dassault will do that on its own.

  6. #711
    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    French government - it is after all vital to French aerospace. At the very least, the French have grasped the principle that to be a top player costs. In that, I salute them.

  7. #712
    hobo in the hills 2495's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    Wowser - thats a price drop and a half. Goodness me - the French must really want this abdly to go that low for such an awesome piece of kit.

    Would really be a boost to their aviation industry though, so better swallow a few millions to keep the skills set tip top.

  8. #713
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
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    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...
    What are they not offering to be able to give them away at this price? Radar? Avionics? Engine? Spares?

  10. #715

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    The question is how many fighters will Brazil finally buy, because FAB has a need of nearly 100 new fighters. I doubt it will really end up with only 36 and more fighters of course will reduce the costs.
    This price for only 36 is simply not realistic, what would the 60 Rafales for UAE cost then, not to forget 126 for India?

  11. #716
    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...
    Depends on which offers the most likely chance of success. Do the French have a saying as we do here "To looose a sprat to catch a mackerel" - ie a small loss for a bigger gain.

  12. #717

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    I'd just like to point out that € 96M - 40% = € 57.6M. I don't know about you, but for me € 7.6M is a tidy amount.

    If "Le Monde" is as accurate about this information as it is about its maths...

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    When you're desperate for a sale you do what you have to do. Dassault is pretty much at the sunset of it's fighter business.

  14. #719

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panchito12 View Post
    When you're desperate for a sale you do what you have to do.
    True enough, and assuming they really lowered the fly-away cost, they probably discreetly jacked-up the MSRP for the spare parts by 50%!

  15. #720
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Desperate Dassault ? Not really
    Falcon sales represent > 60% of Dassault Aviation turnover and D.A. is world leader on the top end business jet market.
    More important: Dassault Systemes , now almost as big as Dassault Aviation, is world leader in 3D/PLM (Product Lifecycle management ) software market and is still growing fast.
    2009 was a bad year for everyone in the aerospace industry but Dassault is a very rich firm : in 2009, despite the crisis, D.A. bought cash 26% of the biggest european defense electronic group (Thales) and D.S bought cash a part of IBM Corp.’s sales and customer support unit.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3871176
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aal7lVvThpj0

    And after these acquisitions, Dassault consolidated available cash still totaled EUR 1.69 billion.

    Dassault is not desperate , Dassault never lost money on any contracts and Dassault won't lost money in Brazil whatever the final choice...
    Future Rafales export sales are very important for the future of France's (and Europe) aerospace and defence industry ... but Dassault is not desperate .

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