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Thread: Rafale News

  1. #721
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
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    Rafale : Dassault aurait réduit de 40 % le prix de vente au Brésil
    LE MONDE | 05.01.10 | 18h18

    Le constructeur aéronautique Dassault, en compétition pour fournir 36 avions de chasse Rafale au Brésil, a dû diminuer son prix de vente de 40 % pour augmenter ses chances, affirme, vendredi 6 novembre, Libération. Dassault se serait engagé à aligner le prix sur celui payé par l'armée française, soit 50 millions d'euros l'unité, contre une offre originelle de 96 millions.

    http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/artic...3685_3234.html
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m

  2. #722
    Senior Member Herman the II's Avatar
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    Who will burden the difference? Hardly imaginable that Dassault will do that on its own.

  3. #723
    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    French government - it is after all vital to French aerospace. At the very least, the French have grasped the principle that to be a top player costs. In that, I salute them.

  4. #724
    hobo in the hills 2495's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    Wowser - thats a price drop and a half. Goodness me - the French must really want this abdly to go that low for such an awesome piece of kit.

    Would really be a boost to their aviation industry though, so better swallow a few millions to keep the skills set tip top.

  5. #725
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
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    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...
    What are they not offering to be able to give them away at this price? Radar? Avionics? Engine? Spares?

  7. #727

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    The question is how many fighters will Brazil finally buy, because FAB has a need of nearly 100 new fighters. I doubt it will really end up with only 36 and more fighters of course will reduce the costs.
    This price for only 36 is simply not realistic, what would the 60 Rafales for UAE cost then, not to forget 126 for India?

  8. #728
    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    The other bad thing in this is that, if Brazil ends up buying Rafale @ 50m, good luck selling to the EAU or Swiss @ 96m...
    Depends on which offers the most likely chance of success. Do the French have a saying as we do here "To looose a sprat to catch a mackerel" - ie a small loss for a bigger gain.

  9. #729

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    I'd just like to point out that € 96M - 40% = € 57.6M. I don't know about you, but for me € 7.6M is a tidy amount.

    If "Le Monde" is as accurate about this information as it is about its maths...

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Dassault reduced Rafale cost by 40% for Brazil, with unit price at 50 million € compared to original 96m
    When you're desperate for a sale you do what you have to do. Dassault is pretty much at the sunset of it's fighter business.

  11. #731

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panchito12 View Post
    When you're desperate for a sale you do what you have to do.
    True enough, and assuming they really lowered the fly-away cost, they probably discreetly jacked-up the MSRP for the spare parts by 50%!

  12. #732
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Desperate Dassault ? Not really
    Falcon sales represent > 60% of Dassault Aviation turnover and D.A. is world leader on the top end business jet market.
    More important: Dassault Systemes , now almost as big as Dassault Aviation, is world leader in 3D/PLM (Product Lifecycle management ) software market and is still growing fast.
    2009 was a bad year for everyone in the aerospace industry but Dassault is a very rich firm : in 2009, despite the crisis, D.A. bought cash 26% of the biggest european defense electronic group (Thales) and D.S bought cash a part of IBM Corp.’s sales and customer support unit.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3871176
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aal7lVvThpj0

    And after these acquisitions, Dassault consolidated available cash still totaled EUR 1.69 billion.

    Dassault is not desperate , Dassault never lost money on any contracts and Dassault won't lost money in Brazil whatever the final choice...
    Future Rafales export sales are very important for the future of France's (and Europe) aerospace and defence industry ... but Dassault is not desperate .

  13. #733
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Fab clarification about FX-2
    http://translate.google.fr/translate...tm&sl=pt&tl=en

    Brazil / Rafale: the decision is "political"
    AFP
    06/01/2010 | Updated: 16:01 | Add to my selection
    "The final decision is always political," said in Geneva today the Brazilian Minister of Foreign Affairs Celso Amorim, questioned about the proposed purchase by Brazil of French fighter Rafale, which would be decried by the Brazilian military .

    "Obviously, we will consider, take into account what is in the technical report, but "it is the Minister of Defense, the President (Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva) to decide," Did He told a meeting with journalists. "This is not a purely military decision."
    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/20...-politique.php

    The fight between the Fab and the Brazilian gov intensifies , my opinion is the FAB will lose ... not because of a final "costly" Rafale choice but because they will probably have to wait their new fighters some more years ...

  14. #734
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    France still confident on Brazilian jet order (AP)

    French defense minister calls Rafale a 'Ferrari' compared to rival for Brazilian contract

    PARIS (AP) -- France downplayed Wednesday a report that Brazil's air force favors a Swedish competitor to French defense contractor Dassault's Rafale fighter jet for an order worth up to $4.4 billion.

    Defense minister Herve Morin called the report in Brazilian newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo "rumors" and vaunted the superiority of the French jet.

    "This is an extremely tough competition and in this type of competition everyone spreads a lot of rumors," Morin said in an interview on French radio station RMC.

    Sweden's Gripen NG, made by Saab AB, and U.S.-based Boeing Co.'s F-18 Super Hornet are also in the running for the contract. The newspaper said the Rafale finished last in a technical evaluation carried out by Brazil's air force.

    The air force's main objection to the Rafale is its price, which is estimated at double the cost of a Gripen fighter, Tuesday's report in Folha de Sao Paulo said. The Gripen was preferred because of the greater opportunity provided by the Swedish group to transfer technology to Brazilian engineers, the report said.

    Brazil's air force would not confirm the report, saying only that it has completed its technical evaluation of the three jets but has not yet given the report to the Defense Ministry.

    Morin defended the Rafale, saying it was like "a Ferrari compared to the Gripen, which is a Volvo."

    A final decision on the order for 36 fighters had been expected last year, with the first deliveries set for 2014. So far Brazil has not announced its choice.

    France has struggled to find a foreign buyer for the Rafale. Paris has been trying for years to market the planes -- from Saudi Arabia to India and elsewhere -- but has not yet clinched an export deal.

    Brazil's Defense Minister Nelson Jobim has expressed a preference for France's Rafale.

    Brazil already has agreed to buy five French Scorpene submarines, one of them with nuclear propulsion, and 50 Cougar helicopters for about $12 billion. All would be assembled in Brazil.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/France....html?x=0&.v=1

  15. #735
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    That's a tough game !

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