Rafale News

[Olybrius]

Dilma should keep military commanders, says Jobim
Jornal do Comercio , Dec 13

The President-elect Rousseff, should remain in her government, the three commanders of the Armed Forces: Enzo Peri, Army; Julio Soares Neto, Navy, and Juniti Saito, Air Force. The information is from Defense Minister Nelson Jobim.
I will discuss (the issue) with Dilma next week. But the trend is for maintenance," he said.
Jobim also said Dilma should talk with President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to discuss the purchase of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force. In this conversation will be decided whether the purchase will be announced later this month or in the early months of the new government.
The competition for the sale of fighter jets involves the Rafale, the French Dassault, Gripen, the Swedish company Saab, and the F-18 manufactured by US-based Boeing. The Brazilian government treats the issue as not only the purchase of new aircraft, but as an agreement that involves transfer of technology.

From:
http://jcrs.uol.com.br/site/noticia.php?codn=49191

[Olybrius]

First night time launch of Sagem’s AASM guided weapon with infrared terminal guidance
Safran , dec 14

Sagem (Safran group) and French defense procurement agency DGA have successfully performed the first night time launch of the 250 kg AASM modular air-to-ground weapon with infrared terminal guidance, as part of export evaluation tests.

The test was carried out by French armed forces using a Rafale multirole fighter deployed at the DGA’s missile test center in Biscarosse, southwest France. The weapon was launched at a range of more than 50 km from the target, with a vertical terminal trajectory.

Operating at night, the AASM’s infrared imager identified its target several seconds before impact, and its image processing algorithms enabled it to hit the target within one meter.

This successful test reflects the AASM’s ability to carry out precision strikes to within one meter, day or night, and also confirms the ability of the AASM family to meet the operational requirements of air forces in the export market.

The AASM weapon family, developed and produced by Sagem, comprises a guidance kit and range augmentation kit fitted to existing bombs. Offering a range exceeding 50 km, and capable of being fired off-axis in relation to the target, day or night and under all weather conditions, even at low altitude, the AASM features high precision and terminal trajectories perfectly adapted to all types of targets. The AASM guided weapon is currently being used in Afghanistan on Rafale multirole fighters deployed by French armed forces.

From:
http://www.sagem-ds.com/spip.php?article769

More about AASM (Hammer):
http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D1215E-AASM.pdf
http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D111...ta_modeler.pdf

[Sancho78]

AASM is really a great weapon system, but like all French weapons comes with high costs and that will remain the biggest problem. Still waiting for an 125Kg anti radiation, or an 500/1000Kg extended range version with folding wings. Both would supplement Rafales weapon pack in SEAD and stand off strike missions, where Scalp would be too much.

[Kongjun33]

AASM is really a great weapon system, but like all French weapons comes with high costs and that will remain the biggest problem. Still waiting for an 125Kg anti radiation, or an 500/1000Kg extended range version with folding wings. Both would supplement Rafales weapon pack in SEAD and stand off strike missions, where Scalp would be too much.

"High costs" here, "too costly" there... well like Loke2, if you re just here to spread same comments on french weaponry costs, it s a bit boring, isn't it? See the other hand sometimes : If these ones re pricy, don't you think that s also because they re highly valuable? Olybrius, thanks again for all these news you regularly post here.

[Mat_fr]

price of independance.

[xav]

price of independance.

price of quality (and price to pay my paycheck (in part) )

[Mat_fr]

Well you are obviously overpaid

[xav]

Yeah right, I wish!

Colleagues joked they wouldn't mind getting paid 1 AASM a year...

[Mat_fr]

let's not derail this thread.

good luck for your job !

[Sancho78]

"High costs" here, "too costly" there... well like Loke2, if you re just here to spread same comments on french weaponry costs, it s a bit boring, isn't it? See the other hand sometimes : If these ones re pricy, don't you think that s also because they re highly valuable? Olybrius, thanks again for all these news you regularly post here.

LOL, not realy! He is a Gripen supporter, while I prefer the Rafale, but that doesn't mean I have to ignore its downsides right?
As I said in my last post, I like the AASM too, but you can't deny that it is costlier compared to other PGMs and that's mainly because of the higher R&D and production costs in Europe, not to mention the limited orders. That's the same reasons why MICA, or other older French weapons were costly too.
Even the French forces in Afghanistan are using the more cost-effective US LGBs now right? That's the point, you simply don't need the best PGM all the time and that might be the reason why it won't be ordered in higher numbers. I really hope IAF will order them with the Mirage upgrade, but so far not a single report is talking about it and they might focus on Paveway and when it's ready developed, integrating their own LGB.

[Mordoror]

LOL, not realy! He is a Gripen supporter, while I prefer the Rafale, but that doesn't mean I have to ignore its downsides right?
As I said in my last post, I like the AASM too, but you can't deny that it is costlier compared to other PGMs and that's mainly because of the higher R&D and production costs in Europe, not to mention the limited orders. That's the same reasons why MICA, or other older French weapons were costly too.
Even the French forces in Afghanistan are using the more cost-effective US LGBs now right? That's the point, you simply don't need the best PGM all the time and that might be the reason why it won't be ordered in higher numbers. I really hope IAF will order them with the Mirage upgrade, but so far not a single report is talking about it and they might focus on Paveway and when it's ready developed, integrating their own LGB.

AASM is also more expensive because it provides capabilities the others PGM (until now) do not : like "over the shoulder" "no LOS " and "low altitude launch"
but yep it's price is overkill when in classic low intensity or clear sight/clear weather combat situations you can use basic paveway II with the same efficiency
however i'd had better an AASM load than a Paveway load if i had to bomb Iran
time to get back to the Rafale though

[Sancho78]

AASM is also more expensive because it provides capabilities the others PGM (until now) do not : like "over the shoulder" "no LOS " and "low altitude launch"
but yep it's price is overkill when in classic low intensity or clear sight/clear weather combat situations you can use basic paveway II with the same efficiency
however i'd had better an AASM load than a Paveway load if i had to bomb Iran
time to get back to the Rafale though

I know and that's why I hope IAF will at least by some of them, at least to diversify the weapons of Mirage 2000, but for higher numbers the costs are important too. I wonder how costly the laser AASM version will be compared to Paveway and what the French forces will use on Rafale, when it will be available too?
Yes, back to topic!

[signatory]

price of independance.

price of quality (and price to pay my paycheck (in part) )

Xav is probably more closer here on why.. it appears to be a quality high tech weapon. And sometimes things has to cost more. But then there's the price of not finding partners, and price of having strong unions.

It's really difficult for politicians, especially in highly unionized countries, to shut down local R&D houses so they get new bread every year. The price is naturally driven up due to absorbing a higher degree of R&D and testing costs on small series production runs. The weapons and their associated systems are not 100% national either with selected foreign sub-components and how many GPS satellites does France own for it's gps-guided weapon of 'independence' anyway?

As for the rest of non-French weapon systems in its Air force and the reduction of national R&D programs that's a whole other topic although it's of interest here considering the ultra-strong French government support for a Brazilian partnership in the figher area too. French leadership has for a long time now sought to drive down weapons costs where possible by entering into partnerships and that was the original ambition for Rafale too.

[Olybrius]

Alain Juppe optimistic about the sale of Rafale


L'Usine Nouvelle, Dec 15

PARIS (*******) - The defense minister, Alain Juppe, said Wednesday that France had always "good hopes" to sell the Rafale combat aircraft from Dassault Aviation in the coming weeks.

Brazil is about to choose the supplier of 36 future combat aircraft but indicated last week that he will not announce its decision before the inauguration of President-elect Dilma Rousseff on 1 January.

"We have good hopes" to sell the Rafale, Alain Juppe said on France Inter. "This aircraft is an excellent aircraft that can do everything , deterrence, air defense, ground attack and is no more expensive than others, contrary to what one says."

"There's a fight between exporting countries," he acknowledged, however.

"I hope that the chances of France will confirm in the next few weeks. I shall say no more, I like being careful in these areas," said the Minister of Defence.
[...]

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article...rafale.N143384

[Scooter2]

If, the deal is postponed until after the selection of the MMRCA in India. I wouldn't consider the odds for the Rafale as being good. Clearly, this current delay could spell trouble???