Rafale News

[Olybrius]

Cool HAL waits for the big winner
IBNlive , Nov 5

Plane-maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) chose not to jump into the MMRCA (Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft) madness on Friday, even as aviation pundits world over tracked every bit of news on the opening of a bumper commercial bid.
While the Ministry of Defence officials scanned macro price points along with Typhoon (Eurofighter) and Rafale (Dassault) representatives in Delhi, senior officials of HAL remained cool as a cucumber. They probably knew, who ever bags the $10.4 billion order, they will be the biggest winner.
Out of the 126 combat MMRCA fighters, HAL will manufacture 108 aircraft (make category) at the Aircraft Division in Bangalore, while the first 18 (buy category) will come in a fly-away condition from the hangars of the winner.
“First, we will make few planes from a semi-knocked-down kit, then from completely knocked-down kit and finally from absolute raw material phase. Once we are clear with the rules of the game, we will start parallel activities,” HAL sources said.

When asked how significant will be the MMRCA project to HAL, the official said: “It will be a huge learning curve for us as we lay our hands on the next-level of fighter jet. It will also give us some learning points for our Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project. We will be able to extrapolate the MMRCA knowledge to FGFA. Definitely it is an exciting prospect to get involved with Western aircraft technology.”
HAL’s Hawk production line is abuzz with activities and they are hoping to complete the delivery of the remaining 15 aircraft (out of a total 42 made under licence) by the end of 2011-2012. “This line will be busy for a couple of years more as we have an additional order of 57 aircraft. So, MMRCA will be a separate production line, with likely additional manpower,” sources said. HAL’s Engine Division in Bangalore will play a key role in the project. While it is very sketchy to predict when the Indian Air Force will get the first HAL-built MMRCA, the company is seeing this as an opportunity to raise the bar of professional work sphere. ”We need to possibly empower our managers and encourage them to take risks fearlessly,” the official said.

From:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cool-hal-...75-60-115.html

[Olybrius]

Europe versus France contest begins for world's biggest combat aircraft deal
Times of India , Nov 5

Now, battle-lines for the Europe versus France contest, after elimination of US and Russia in earlier rounds, have been clearly drawn. India on Friday opened the financial bids of the two fighters left in the fray for the world's biggest combat aircraft deal, but promptly declared it would take at least two-three weeks to declare the eventual winner since tons of data had to be computed.

For all its promises of "full transparency" in the medium multi-role combat aircraft ( MMRCA) contract to acquire 126 fighters, likely to be the single biggest defence deal in the run-up to the 2014 polls with its overall value set to exceed $20 billion, the defence ministry refused to say anything concrete.

Sources, however, said the "unit flyaway cost" or "direct acquisition cost" of each Eurofighter Typhoon was "higher" than the French Rafale fighter, both of which fall in the $80-$110 million bracket, much costlier than the American, Russian and Swedish jets earlier eliminated after exhaustive technical evaluation by IAF pilots.

But the unit flyaway cost will not be the only factor to determine the lowest bidder (L-1). The MoD will also take into account "life-cycle costs" or the cost of operating the fighters over a 40-year period, with 6,000 hours of flying.

Besides, there are costs of the transfer of technology (ToT) since the first 18 jets will be bought from abroad in a flyaway condition, while the rest 108 will be manufactured in India, under licence, by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

"The bids were opened today in front of the Indian contract negotiating committee, comprising MoD, IAF, finance, production and quality assurance officials, as well as representatives from French Dassault and EADS (backed by UK, Germany, Spain and Italy). It will take a few weeks to examine and evaluate their commercial proposals to arrive at a verifiable cost model to determine the L-1," said an official.

IAF wants the actual contract to be inked by January-February to ensure the delivery of first 18 jets begins by early-2015 to stem its fast-eroding combat edge, with HAL beginning the manufacturing of the rest 108 from early-2017 onwards. "The first jet built by HAL should roll out in early-2017," said an official.

India is also likely to go in for another 63 fighters after the first 126, if the timelines for the under-development Tejas LCA (light combat aircraft) and the stealth Indo-Russian FGFA (fifth-generation fighter aircraft) projects are not met.

From:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/E...w/10613429.cms

[Olybrius]

Back to Saint-Dizier
Le Mammouth, Nov 4

The Chief of Defence Staff (CEMA) and some high commanders have received this afternoon the last four Rafale (Jean-Marc Tanguy pictures) engaged in operation Harmattan (the fifth came back late October): two single-seat and two double-seat that have landed at 2:10 p.m. at St. Dizier. Symbolically, four major commanders or their representatives welcomed each aircraft: General Antoine Noguier (CDAOA), General Patrick Pacorel (BAC / CFA), General Eric de Lauriston (No. 2 AFSC) and General Paul Fouilland (CFAS)
The CEMA particularly praised the accuracy of the crews and the work done by the ESTA (maintenance squadron) to generate availability. A last thank you, more unexpected, was sent to the families [...], "If our men and women can commit, it's because they can rely on their families for support them. "

Google translated from:
http://lemamouth.blogspot.com/2011/1...nt-dizier.html

[Olybrius]

Another Yannick Barthe's video: Dassault Rafale "Michaël Brocard" Solo Display Sion Airshow 2011
http://vimeo.com/31329805

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK5kd...layer_embedded

More about him:
http://www.yannickbarthe.ch/template...roup=21&lang=1

[S@ncho]

In the same Jane's issue , there is a 6 pages article about "The need for Sead" , we learn that the Rafale demonstrated over Lybia Spectra's ability to locate and classify emetters with a high degree of angular precision, 100 AASM were delivered by Rafales against priority, time sensitive targets, with a particular emphasis on hostile air defenses.

Hi Olybrius, good that you wasn't affected by the hacker probs on MP, especially since MMRCA is heating up! Is there any chance that you can post, or send me this article? I am highly interested to get more infos on Rafales SEAD capabilities.


P.S.

Cool HAL waits for the big winner
IBNlive , Nov 5...

...When asked how significant will be the MMRCA project to HAL, the official said: “It will be a huge learning curve for us as we lay our hands on the next-level of fighter jet. It will also give us some learning points for our Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project. We will be able to extrapolate the MMRCA knowledge to FGFA...

A very interesting point that Imo, because one could ask which techs of Rafale or EF could be interesting for FGFA, because India will produce the MMRCA winner and FGFA at nearly the same time and the IAF definitely will upgrade it's version with European or Israeli techs again. Since radar and engines of FGFA will most likely be Russian origin, the focus could be on avionics from MMRCA winners and Rafale/France has some interesting things on offer in this regard.

[Olybrius]

"Check your mail Sancho "

Combat Aircraft Monthly magazine , december 2011:

[Herman the II]

A very interesting point that Imo, because one could ask which techs of Rafale or EF could be interesting for FGFA, because India will produce the MMRCA winner and FGFA at nearly the same time and the IAF definitely will upgrade it's version with European or Israeli techs again. Since radar and engines of FGFA will most likely be Russian origin, the focus could be on avionics from MMRCA winners and Rafale/France has some interesting things on offer in this regard.

There are lots of things one could have in mind. First would be the integration of Meteor, that would also be an option for the Su30Mki.
Also the HMD/HMSS would be an interesting option for other Indian systems.

[S@ncho]

There are lots of things one could have in mind. First would be the integration of Meteor, that would also be an option for the Su30Mki.
Also the HMD/HMSS would be an interesting option for other Indian systems.

But the integration of European weapons is nothing that India/HAL could learn from ToT or licence production of Rafale/EF. Besides, METEOR will no be integrated on MKI, that's a media speculation only, IAF will use Russian AAMs as long as Astra is not available.
HMD on the other hand is interesting, but I see a higher focus on EWS, ESM and ECM sensors and techs. IAF already stated that they want fully 360° situational awareness with passive sensors for FGFA and Rafale as well as EF offers exactly this, while the other option would be Israel again.

[Olybrius]

Sion Airshow , Sept 2011:

[Martel]

Is there any chance that you can post, or send me this article? I am highly interested to get more infos on Rafales SEAD capabilities.

(sent by MP)

[xav]

Cool, thanks Martel

[Martel]

Rafale part is quite short on this article, Olybrius said almost everything.

[xav]

Indeed, plus the document is not scanned with OCR on so can't copy paste the text

[Olybrius]

Rafale and Eurofighter side by side in India
La Tribune , Nov 6

Commercial offerings of both companies would be very close to each other.

Manufacturers of both fighters still competing to equip the 126 aircraft the Indian Air Force (Air Force), Rafale ( Dassault Aviation ) and Eurofighter ( EADS , BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica), are engaged in a big commercial battle to reign in the Indian skies. According to several sources, the offers of Dassault Aviation and the European consortium would be very close to each other. What is already a big surprise, the Rafale was generally much cheaper (10% to 15% on average) than the Eurofighter in previous tenders in which they were competing one against the other.

The three industrial partners in the Eurofighter program would therefore have made great efforts on the price of the unit to stay competitive with the Rafale [...]. "They have accepted monstrous sacrifices," says one industrialist. "The two manufacturers will see much clearer at the end of the week after a week of work and comparison of the bids," said another industrialist interviewed by "La Tribune" (see below) . However, even if the commercial offerings are really close, the Rafale keep an advantage operationally and technically. Trials of the Indian Air Force placed (it) ahead of Eurofighter.

Colossal challenge

Another trend that seems to emerge is that both offers are superior to the original budget agreed by New Delhi, estimated at $ 11 billion (8 billion euros). According to the Indian press, quoting an anonymous government officials, the Ministry of Defence would have almost doubled it to about $ 20 billion (14.5 billion euros), in particualr to take into account related contracts to support the aircrafts.
[... ]

Google translated from:
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...e-en-inde.html

[Olybrius]

An important step but not decisive
La Tribune , Nov 7

Once the manufacturer selected, exclusive negotiations can drag in India

The opening of business enveloppe is very formal in India and is attended by manufacturers who can verify that the seals are still intact. This applies to the tender for the purchase of 126 combat aircraft in New Delhi, which must choose between the Rafale (Dassault Aviation) and Eurofighter (EADS, BAE Systems and Finmeccanica). Depending on circumstances, two, three or four officers per company, previously accredited may attend this meeting. Manufacturers can then consult the rival bid and have the opportunity to object in principle if their competitor has not fulfilled all the demands required by the client. According to the content of the commercial offers, the meeting may last beyond 1 hour 30.

Accountability for results

What next? It all depends on the differential between the prices of the two manufacturers. If significant, New Delhi can quickly choose to enter into exclusive negotiations with the manufacturer with the lowest bid. These can stretch in length to last one year or two years. However, if the price difference is small, Indian experts will study in depth the two offers by determining what they are exactly. The review could take "three to six months," said several sources to "La Tribune" while a representative of the Indian Ministry of Defence, interviewed Friday by the agency Dow Jones, said the choice of a supplier could be done "in three to four weeks."

In this case, the Indians will scrutinize notably the technology transfers for local assembly of 108 out of 126 aircrafts. The two companies also have an obligation of results. Which can result in the end in a dispute with Delhi if the Indian manufacturer is finally not able to manufacture alone the combat aircrafts.

Google translated from:
http://www.latribune.fr/journal/edit...-decisive.html

If La Tribune is correct then it seems likely that Dassault, unlike Eurofighter, still has a significant financial leeway that could be used either to eliminate its last competitor and/or to finalize the contract. Wait and see...