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From:EADS: Winner or Loser in MMRCA Competition?
Ares, Feb 9
When the Indian government named the Dassault Rafale as the low-cost bidder in the country’s Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft competition, it was a big setback for losing contender Eurofighter.
In particular, the outcome was seen as a setback for EADS, whose Cassidian unit led the campaign. U.K. officials have not been shy in expressing frustration over the German-led effort and suggested that if the talks were reopened -- if contract talks between New Delhi and Dassault stall -- they would push aggressively for a better offer.
But how much of a loss did EADS really suffer in the MMRCA program? Perhaps less than many suspect.
EADS holds a 46% share in the Eurofighter consortium, but also controls 46.3% of Dassault Aviation shares. When word of the Rafale win broke, Dassault’s share price spiked (in part because of the relatively small free-float), in effect adding around €1 billion to the valuation of the company on the day.
“On that day, we lost and gained €500 million,” EADS CEO Louis Gallois quips when asked yesterday about the MMRCA competition as the company released its full-year results.
About DA share ownership:
There are a lot of nonsense written on this subject, for example there is obviously no separation between military and civilian activities of D.A. in order to avoid any influence of EADS. It's useless because in such company (Societe Anonyme under French law) the power goes into the hands of the shareholder who owns the majority of shares and voting rights, And the Dassault family owns 50.55% of shares and voting rights.
This is confirmed by the European Commission:
And this is also the true cause of Louis Gallois (CEO of EADS) resignation from the governing board of Dassault Aviation in 2008 ...[...]It results from the investigation that EADS France does not have the opportunity to exercise any influence in determining the industrial and commercial strategy of Dassault Aviation. EADS does not have veto rights and there is no shareholder pact favoring EADS [...]
The board is now mainly composed with Dassault family members and friends (6 among 9).
From a financial point of view, besides the market value of shares , EADS also receives annually between 25 and 50 million Euros in dividends.
Ok im gonna post a question please dont kill the curious one !
Since the Rafalle was selected for the Indian airforce how has this influenced the price of the other planes ?
I mean there was talk of a Rafalle at about `80-100 mil euros a piece !
How much has the price gone down since this deal ?
From 2006 to 2011 the average Rafale price was at 116 M€ a plane for the French State (tax included), the variation of the cost from projection was exemplary (only +4.7% from projection, for a military program it's an exception), but that's an average on 5 years of production, every plane don't have the same cost.
The actual impact of the order won't be measurable until the chains are producing (and I don't think it will be much cheaper, the production cost is not the main part of the price tag).
I heard they're hopping for around 15-20% cheaper (90-100M€) which is roughly the current real cost of a plane for the French state (I.E. without taxes).
The Deccan Chronicle does not give up !
They finally found a politician to boost their little anti-Rafale crusade
Thank you Typhoon !"In Libya, in the war against Gaddafi, the Rafale had failed in precision bombing and finally the Typhoon was inducted. The UAE too has rejected the Rafale.”
For the record:
About Decca Chronichle here is an interesting input from Common sens from key :
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...=1#post1867736If you want to know what partisan reporting is, you only need to look at the two Deccan Chronicle Reports you posted. Given the kind of scrutiny that has accompanied the MMRCA deal for years, isn't it surprising that only one newspaper is reporting these claims?
Both the headlines look sensationalist. The Defense Minister has only ordered a 'vetting' of the claims whereby, the MOD will examine the MP's claims and submit a report, which will then be read out by the Defence Minister or his subordinates in Parliament; this is a standard procedure on all government transacations. A 'probe' would mean suspending all negotiations on the suspected contract, which has not been done.
And finally, the Deccan Chronicle is based out of Hyderabad, the capital of the state which the said MP represents!! So I don't think I need to connect the dots. The dirty tricks and counter-dirty tricks departments of various interest groups are certainly alive in the Indian media.
It" look likes" one MP got corrupted or whatever and his using this Chroniccle to make the "buzz"
It is also worth to mention that before Deccan chronicle reversal of stance against the rafale it reported that :
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chann...core-merit-126“Rafale figures a notch higher than Typhoon in terms of performance and involves easier adaptability as it is logistically and operationally similar to Mirage-2000, used extensively by our boys during the Kargil conflict in 1999. The French government has also cleared the technology transfer, including the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar,” sources in the IAF told Deccan Chronicle.
In fact Since Rafale was selected , the Deccan Chronicle is, among the most important indian newspapers, the only one spreading suspicions and rumors about the MMRCA decision (with this time 3 articles with the same info ... lol) . But i dont think it's very important.
Captured and google translated from A&C 2303, page 13Who could work with Dassault ?
Air & Cosmos , march 9
To fulfill the conditions of the MoD in matter of offsets, Dassault Aviation will not only work with large state firms like HALand Bharat Electronics, the champion of Indian radars. The MoD wants also to promote the industrial private sector. Its agency for offsets, the Dofa, has referenced fifty players capable of producing equipment or systems for the Indian Rafale. These include Bharat Heavy Electricals, a diversified group which manufactures flight simulators and avionics, Larsen & Toubro (sensors, radars ...), Samtel (cockpit equipment, navigation), the latter being a partner of Thales for renovation of the Indian Mirage 2000 through a JV. There are also Alpha-ITL Electro Optics and Memory Electronics, which manufactures optronic equipment, or groups not necessarily specialists in matter of defense, like Reliance (who just signed an agreement with Dassault), Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Power. The latter has created a division in combat systems and data link. Without forgetting ECIL, which manufactures joysticks and black boxes, or Precision Electronics, specialist in cabling.
In contrast, the Dofa list has few industrial specialized in aerostructures: there is Aurora Integrated Systems and Infra Polytec. Logically, this area is the prerogative of HAL.
Captured and google translated from:Indian Rafale: how Dassault is preparing:
Air & Cosmos , March 9
The manufacturer has six to eight months to prove it can meet the requirements of the Indian authorities in matter of offsets and technology transfers. A short delay , especially as the local industry has still many gaps to fill.
There was contained joy, last January 31, when the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has announced the selection of the Rafale to equip the Indian Air Force with 126 multimission fighters. The famous MMRCA contract. But the next day, gravity took over at St. Cloud, headquarters of Dassault Aviation. And for good reason. If the manufacturer of the Rafale and its partners Thales and Safran, want to sign a contract in good and due form, they must prove that they can transfer to the Indian industry 50% of this contract, which would amount between 12 and 15 billion dollars according to various estimations. So, 6 to 7 billion in offsets and technology transfer to find before next fall! This is a record, commensurate to the contract. Only the first 18 Rafale will be built in France. The following 108 should be built by the Indian aeronautic's national champion, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), a state corporation. Dassault must not miss the boat. "It's a big reference for French industry and for us, it will represent about 20 million euros in turnover by plane, "emphasizes Jean-Paul Herteman, CEO of Safran, during the presentation of the results of the group, last February 23.
The Indians landed at Dassault.
But the Indians are in a hurry. The MoD announced its intention to sign a definitive contract eight months after the annoucement around September-October. " Since the beginning of February, Indians have sent their best staff in St. Cloud, dozens of brilliant graduates to form working groups with Dassault teams "said a source familiar with the matter. On the French manufacturer side, it is logically Eric Trappier, Dassault director for international affairs, the man of all the negotiations when it comes to export the Rafale , which took things in hand, in conjunction with the technical direction and the management of industrial affairs.
Concurrently, an ad hoc committee will coordinate and centralize the Franco-Indian work , including members like Jean-Marc Gasparini, head of the Rafale program, and representatives of Thales and Safran. On the Indian side, HAL will be the main interlocutor of Dassault.
Naturally, the idea is not to formalize all the offset volume in the smallest details. It would be an impossible mission in such a short time. In this preliminary phase, HAL and Dassault will list all the fields, module per module, where technology transfers are possible, and will establish priorities and a timetable. Then they will give everything a value [price] and sign partnerships with Indian companies. The aircraft and its 30,000 main components will be dissected to identify transferable parts, subassemblies and equipment : from elements of the fuselage to the landing gear, through pipes or embedded systems.
There is plenty to do , the French fighter aircraft contains for example 25 kilometers of cabling and 300,000 rivets! The goal, in a first step, is to define compensation directly related to the Rafale program. Indirect offsets will come later. Concurrently, Dassault will turn on its supply chain: probably not all of the 500 concerned companies, but rather the 250 to 300 most important . "We have not yet been approached by Dassault, but we expect it. This is to Dassault to conduct these first discussions," said Francois Bertrand, president of the board of Latecoere, which manufactures the high back part of the Rafale.
Similarly, the manufacturer of St. Cloud will value all the industrial operations hidden but no less strategic in manufacturing an airplane: Process engineering, CAD, referentials of methods ... Finally, and this is not the smallest task to do for the working groups, they will set the price of licenses to be paid by Indian companies selected to have the right to manufacture a particular equipment. On the side of New Delhi, an actor will play an important role: The Defence Offset Facilitation Agency (DOFA). Created in 2006, this organization ,depending of the MoD, plays the role of interface between military, Indian industrialists and foreign suppliers.