Rafale News

[Olybrius]

Home straight before the air show season:

More:
http://translate.google.fr/translate...n-des-meetings
http://www.rafalesolodisplay.com/presentation-au-cemaa/

[Caprice]

Olybrius, I'm not climbing on the roof over this if you think so...

"Don't like what is written", no, not when it's not correct(Se above)...

I choose to be a little sceptical over the validity of these other "allegations" since it's clear that they have an agenda purpose behind them.

Story "...based on documents...that nobody calls into question in the swiss media" , the alleged unreadyness of the 98 improvements I guess you mean?
How "grave" that is depends on the date(and what part judging/commenting the risk), is it from 2009 it could very well be overplayed now but used as a propagande tool?

Let's se what happends and don't belive everything you read...

(Won't post more on this here.)

/C.

[Olybrius]

This is not based on the 2008/2009 reports and U Maurer just indirectly confirmed that these infos come from real leaks.
http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/4/14487.pdf

Yes, wait and see , especially the subcomittee report in June.

[lander]

Considering the Reporter makes several inaccurate [or just plain stupid] claims and was the source of the first leak, which in its turn was leaked in a very discrete fashion where the large picture was held by releasing only certain portions of an otherwise large and comprehensive report, which gives the readers a distorted view of the whole picture, I'd say he's full of sh!t. The validity of the report has so far never been questioned. What has been questioned however is why the reporter merely released certain portions of a classified military report which purpose only seems to be to get a civil reaction against the jet in Switzerland in a time where Dassault still was in a lot of stormy weather with negative publicity. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together...

The claims I was referring to were amongst things:
"And new AMRAAM and IRST installed on the aircraft were really only jokes. The real missiles themselves are far from being operational."
Last time I checked, both AMRAAM and IRIS-T, have been used in real combat situations, even by the Swedish air force themselves over Libya with Gripens. And if he was referring to the Meteor-system, none of the Eurocanards have it in service, the Gripen was the first aircraft to fly with it and has been in the lead to test it, and the alternative, the Rafale, will use a "downgraded" Meteor if you will, with a one-way com-link, compared to the dual-way intended for the Gripen and the Eurofighter.

I also don't see his points regarding the fuel-issue. The Gripen NG used in the may-tests flew without the drop-tanks and armed with AAM to show that the combat radius aswell as the range had severely increased compared to the C/D models on internal fuel alone.

Nor do I see his points about the A400M or why the Gripen would be delivered no earlier than 2023? What makes Saab equal to Airbus? What facts are there that the Gripens would be delivered later? So far, Saab has been quite impressive with their deliveries, and opposed to the F-35-project, came in under the appointed budget with a plane that delivered more than the Swedish air force originally opted for on time. But there are certainly no apples and oranges in the world of military aviation. Only PINEAPPLES. Large, sticky, bitter and hard to eat Pineapples. They're all the same.

He keeps mentioning the E/F being inferior to their F/A-18C/D Hornets aswell which I see no reason what so ever to why they would be. Take the fact that the Gripen is continually downgraded by a certain factor due to uncertainty, it shows quite a lot that it still managed to make "acceptable" grades. The Rafale was also claimed to be worse in dogfighting than the F/A-18C/D, which I'd say is nowhere near reality. But the Report is the LAW! or is it?

I really don't see it fitting to start the bashing or Rafale-/Gripen-strong arguments over this subject. The Gripen was declared the lowest bidder, just like the Rafale in India, and I don't see the point in taking a dim-witted biased journalists article on the Rafale news, as the Swiss F-X competition would hardly re-start but rather be cancelled all together. Next time, put that **** in its own thread or the existing Gripen-News thread or the Swiss fighter deal thread. But for heavens sake, keep it out of a thread in which it has absolutely nothing to do with apart from being butt-hurt.

[Olybrius]

bla bla bla what is written in Le Matin is not less credible than any propaganda coming from a manufacturer, even a swedish one . The Swiss MoD acknowledged this afternoon that the informations found in the medias come from the Swiss militaries themselves !
http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/be1b...rer_est_en_jeu

Btw you didn't even understand the content of the article and the .PDF. For example Le Matin is only saying AMRAAM (improvement 8 of 98) , the real missile and not a mounted mock-up, is not yet operational on the E/F demonstrator, nothing else.
But i don't want to waste my time to argue about who's right and who's wrong, i don't care. The only interesting thing im highlighting is there are now really good chances that the acquisition process will restart, at least partially. It's an important NEWS , deal with it and stop polluting this RAFALE NEWS topic with your fanboyism. Thank you !
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...e-News/page170

(if you like stupid and endless discussions about combat aircrafts and to post things like "I'd say he's full of sh!t" or "That was the biggest load of horse shi-t I've read to this date" (post 3615) you can also join a poorly moderated forum like Keypub...)

[Olybrius]

Delays and challenges for Indo-Russian fighter

N C Agarwal, HAL’s design chief [...] says, “We will pay some $6-7 billion to France for the licence to build the Rafale in HAL. In the FGFA project, a similar sum would bring in genuine design knowledge that will help us in the future.”

http://business-standard.com/india/n...ighter/474329/

[Olybrius]

Landing at RAF Coningsby air base , May 11:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6...831943ca5o.jpg
From:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadkil...in/photostream
PS:

[...]. And next May 11, for a scheduled Rafale visit to Coningsby airbase, the RAF has indicated that none of its four Typhoon squadrons would be available for training [...]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post6166785
Too bad! they are right next ..but it seems Rafale are there to commemorate the centenary of Coningsby-based 3 Sqn

[Olybrius]

Avions de combat : la guerre est relancée
http://www.capital.fr/enquetes/strategie/avions-de-combat-la-guerre-est-relancee-720374
http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capital.fr%2Fenquetes%2Fstrategie%2Favions-de-combat-la-guerre-est-relancee-720374

For the record (same article but now available online):
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post6162196

[Olybrius]

Swiss army to buy new bicycles -- with gears !

[...]Some 2,800 of the Swiss-made bikes, at a cost of 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,700) apiece, will soon be ordered to replace the 20-year-old current model [...] The minister in charge of the armed forces, Ueli Maurer -- who has been under criticism for buying Swedish Gripen fighters, considered by critics an aging technology -- tested the new bicycle in person, the paper said.

http://www.thelocal.ch/3319/20120514/
off topic ... but U. Maurer is priceless

[Olybrius]

Aviation Week , May 14:

[Olybrius]

Its clearly talking about a possible future competition in which Rafale could be involved ..
If you have nothing more interesting to add to this forum/topic, just close your mouth. Thank you...

btw if you have personal requests , use pm ...

[Olybrius]

Still the swiss competition, to put things in perspective:

Eric Trappier (Dassault vice president of international) interview , Les Echos , march 18:

Will you deposit an appeal in Switzerland ?
The parliament launched an investigation. We want to be sure that the procedure, which required the tested aircraft to be in production, was respected. Rafale and Eurofighter were evaluated in flight. But which Gripen version has been evaluated? is this a paper plane? A prototype? If this is the case then it would be conflicting with the procedure such we understood it. We will follow the outcome of the parliamentary inquiry. If it confirms that the procedure has been followed, we will not launch a legal challenge against a sovereign state.[ otherwise...]

From:
http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...ron-303002.php

For the record:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post6172707

[DrSomnath999]

PLEASE NOTE : This article is from Air & Cosmos magazine which is a highly popular french magazine .Well as the pdf was in jpeg format i could nt translate it directly by copy pasting the article into google translate ,so i had to personally type all the french word in google translate & translate it ,so if by chance if there is any mistake in translation plz forgive me & also correct me.
REGARDS




Air & Cosmos magazine







PG 1

(FRENCH)




Duels au dessus des sables


Saint Dizier 8 Novembre 2009
Une premiere vague de trois Rafale de l EC-1/7 "pr ovence" quitte la Haute -Marne pour des horizons bien plus desertiques.Direction les Emirats Arabes unis (EAU) et ; la base aerienne d Al Dhafia ,pour un exercise aucun no pilote de chasse au monde ne souhaiterait manquer: l;Advanced Tactical Leadership Course ,organise annuelle-ment par les EAU. Au total, six Rafale du 1/7 rejoignent deux vagues de trois avions la base emiratie en cet automne 2009.ls sont accompagnes par 15 pilotes, d'origines et d'experiences diverses .Tous ont saisi l'occasion de venir s'en-trainer sur un terrain de jeu hors du commun: trois fois plus grand que le "range" de Red Flag,l' Air Warfare Centre a ete cree en 2000 au profit des pays du Golfe et de leur s principaux allies que sont les Etats -Unis,la Grande-Bretagne et la france ainsi que d'autres nations invitees ponctuellement chaque annee. L' AWC emirati dispose egalement du dernier cri en matiere d' equipements de restitution permettant un de briefing tres precis a la fin de chaque mission
En 2009 , le Rafale participe pour la premiere fois a Advanced Tactical Leadership Course .Mais un autre invite exceptionnel partage l'affiche : le F22 raptor americain , dont l' US Air force a depeche six avions rattaches au 27 th Fighter Squadron ,base a Langle y Air Force Base . Concu au de but des annees quatr e-vingt- dix,le chasseur americain est l'avion de combat le plus moderne en service a ce jour .Il associe des performances aerodynamiques extraordinaires a une tres grande furtivite ,mais aussi a un

TRANSLATE




Duels above the sand


Saint Dizier November 8,
A first wave of three Rafale of EC- 1/ 7th "provence" leaves the Haute-Marne for horizons much desertiques.Direction Arab Emirates (UAE) and; Air Base to Al Dhafia, no exercise for any fighter pilot in the world would miss the; advanced tactical leadership race, organized yearly by the UAE-ment. A total of six gust seventh join two waves of three aircraft based in Emirati 2009.ls this fall are accompanied by 15 pilots, of various backgrounds and experiences. All took the opportunity to come in trainer on a playground out of the ordinary: three times larger than the "range" of Red Flag, the Air Warfare Centre was created in 2000 in favor of the Gulf countries and their main allies that are s states U.S., Britain and France and other nations invitees punctually each year. The AWC has Emirati also the last word in matters of reproduction equipment allowing a very precise briefing at the end of each mission
In 2009, the Rafale is participating for the first time at Advanced Tactical Leadership Course. But another poster invites outstanding shares: the F22 raptor American, including the U.S. Air Force has six planes Depeche piecing the 27 th Fighter Squadron, based in Langle y Air Force Base. Designed for the purpose of year quatr e-nineties, the American fighter is the fighter most modern in service today. It combines extraordinary aerodynamic performance has a very high stealth, but also has
a




PG2

(FRENCH)
systeme d'armes articule autour d'un puissant radar Actively Electronically scanned Radar et de capteurs passifs dont le fonctionnement est proche en principe de celui de SPECTRA . Taille sur mesure pour l' interception a haute altitude et le combat tournoyant: il dispose pour cela d'une poussee vectorielle qui permet d'orienter le flux d'air de ses deux reacteurs dans le plan vertical,offrant un surcroit de manoeuvrabilite dans toutes les phases de vol.
Sur le papier ,le F 22 Raptor et la Rafale n'ont donc pas grand- chose a voir. Alors que l'avion americain (le chasseur le plus cher au monde) a ete concu comme lavion ultime de defense aerienne, le bireacteur francais reste un avion polyvalent et "abordable".Les deux appareils ne sont meme pas concurrents sur le marche international: Washington refuse ainsi d' exporter son raptor ,qui doit rester la "botte secrete" durant un conflit aerien de forte intensite .
Le dition 2009 d advanced tactical leadership course va tout de meme etre pretexte au premier affrontement entre les deux avions


Une defaite pour cinq matchs nuls


L US airforce a toutefois pose de strictes conditions entourant cette confrontation: le Raptor ne participera a aucun exercice Beyond Visual Range avec des appareils etrangers .Les pilotes americains acceptent uniquement de se mesurer en combat tournoyant 1 contre 1 face aux equipages qui participent a le exercise. Les pilotes de 'l EC-1/7 saisissent leur chance ...et le bilan est plutot encourageant: sur six passes , seule une aur ait abouti,d'apres les aviateurs francais , a une victoire franche du F 22 Raptor .Les cinq autres se seraient terminees sur un "draw" , cest-a- dire une situation d egalite qui peut etre obtenue par divers parametres : duel qui s'eternise au -dela

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weapons system built around a powerful Actively Electronically scanned radar and passive sensors whose operation is similar in principle to that of SPECTRA. Size of able to intercept at high altitude and in the dogfight: he has for that a thrust vector that guides the exhaust of its two engine in the vertical plane, providing extra maneuverability in all phases of flight.
On paper, the F 22 Raptor and the Rafale have not much to see. While the aircraft was American (the most expensive fighter in the world) has been designed as a Plane ultimate air defense, the French jet aircraft remains a versatile and "affordable." The Both planes are not even competing on the international market: Washington and refuses to export its raptor, which is remain the "secret weapon" during a high intensity aerial conflict.
The 2009 edition of advanced tactical leadership race will be all the same pretext in the first clash between the two planes


A defeat for five draws


The U.S. airforce has, however, poses stringent conditions surrounding this confrontation: the Raptor has not participated in any Beyond Visual Range exercise with any foreign planes. American Pilots accept only to compete in a dogfight 1 against 1 against teams that participate in the exercise.The pilots' s EC 1/7 seize their chance ... and the results are rather encouraging:
On six times, only one would have resulted, after the pilots of French, has a clear victory over the F 22 Raptor. The other five would have ended on a "draw", that is to say a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: duel drags on beyond


PG 3

(FRENCH)
d'une durèe prèdèfinie,enfoncement du "plan-cher" fixè pour l'exercice...


Deux paramétres principaux donnent l'avantage au Raptor en combat tournoyant : sa poussèe vectorielle et l' immense puissance que lui confèrent ses deux rèacteurs ,qui dèlivrent chacun prés de deux fois la poussèe du M88 ! Méme s'il est bien plus lourd que le Rafale ,le F-22 conserve une manoeuvrabilitè redoutable qui lui permet de se sortir de la plupart des situations dèlicates en BFM ;méme s'il dégrade beaucoup d'energie lors de manoeuvres à incidence trés élevée, celle-ci peut-ètre rapidement récupérée par ses moteurs. Mais les pilotes se gardent bien de qualifier le Raptor d'invulnérable:
"Face à un F-22, le Rafale peut se mettre en position de tir canon mais il doit le faire trés rapidement ,sous peine de voir les roles s'inverser si le duel s'éternise ",résume un aviateur français .En combat longue portée

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predefined time, depressing the "high-level" fixed for the year ...


Two main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: its thrust vector and the immense power conferred by its two engines, which each deliver near twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F-22 retains a formidable maneuverability that allows him to leave the most delicate situations BFM; same degrades if a lot of energy during impact operations at very high, it may be rapidly recovered by the engines. But the pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor invulnerable:
"Faced with an F-22, Rafale can get in shooting position cannon but it must do so very quickly, lest the roles be reversed if the battle drags on," said one French aviator. In combat long-range




PG 4

(FRENCH)
les choses sont bien différentes. Les performances du radar APG 77 et la faible signature radar de l'avion , associées à la capacité d'évoluer en trés haute altitude (jusqu'à 65 000 ft) et à Mach 1.7 sans faire usage de la post combustion rendent l'oiseau pratiquement intouchable...


Les performances de Spectra épatent


Les aviateurs du "Provence" quittent Al Dhafra le 12 décembre ,aprés avoir accumulé 320 heures de vol au cours de 182 sorties .Un grand nombre d'engagements complexes ont permis une fois de plus de faire la démonstration de la polyvalence du chasseur français .Un exemple : lors d'une mission de bombar dement ,le numéro deux d'une patrouille de quatre Rafale largue six AASM à guidage GPS sur six objectifs différents,tout en tirant trois Mica
sur des pistes hostiles...le tout en à peine plus d'une minute.




Le debriefing montrera que les six objectifs, distants de prés de 50 km, ont tous été détruits,tandis que deux appareils ennemis ont été a battus par les missiles francais.Comme pendent Red Flag, les Français louent aussi les performances de Spectra dans la localisation des menaces sol-air: les Rafale déployès pour advanced tactical leadership race auraient ainsi pu remplir parfaitement la mission de destruction des défenses aériennes ennemies (SEAD) aux cotès des F-16 CJ amèricains,dont c'est la mission principale . Une capacitè multirole désormais éprouvée qui permettra au Rafale de faire enfin la différence face à ses compétiteurs

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things are very different. The APG 77 radar performance and low radar signature of the aircraft, together with the ability to evolve in very high altitude (up to 65,000 ft) and Mach 1.7 without using the afterburner make the bird virtually untouchable ...


Performance Spectra amaze


The airmen of "Provence" leaving Al Dhafra December 12, after having accumulated 320 hours flying over 182 attractions. Many complex commitments have once again to demonstrate the versatility of the French fighter. an example: on a mission of bombarding Dement, the number two of a patrol of four Rafale dropped GPS-guided AASM six on six different objectives, while taking three Mica on hostile tracks ... all in just over a minute. The debriefing will show that the six objectives, apart near 50 km, were all destroyed, while two enemy aircraft were beaten by a missile hanging francais.Comme Red Flag, the French also praise the performance of Spectra in the location of ground-air threats: the Rafale made to advanced tactical leadership race would have been able to perfectly fulfill the mission of destroying defenses enemy air (SEAD) alongside the F-16 CJ U.S., which is the main mission. Now proven multirole capability that will allow the Rafale to finally make the difference against its competitors.










SUMMARY


Well it's amazing despite being a 4.5 gen fighter rafale did manage to get a win out of 6 engagements & 5 were drawn in the aerial exercise between rafale & F22 in (ATLC) in 2009.Yes the aerial wargame was fought in within visual range ,if that fight have been fought in beyond visual range the result couldnt have been the same .But 1 thing was indeed worth mentioning that rafale performed impressively well despite being fielded a generation ahead plane like that F 22 raptor.

[Exocet Block 3]

This article was previously posted and translated in this thread by Olybrius :
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5016188

Your translation is quite good nonetheless. On page 3, I would replace "hang" by "lock", it would give something like : "... even if it is very difficult to lock the radar on it, the F-22 does not escape the Rafale's OSF-TV as shown...".

[S@ncho]

Air Chief Marshal Browne leave for France amidst talks for India's largest-ever defence deal


Even as India is in final negotiations to seal its largest-ever defence project, the almost $20 billion MMRCA project to acquire 126 Rafale fighters, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne left for a four-day visit to France on Monday...

...During his visit, ACM Browne will hold talks with Jean-Yves Le Drian, the new French defence minister, Admiral Edouard Guillaud, French chief of defence staff, Ingenieur General de l'Armement (IGA) Laurent Collet-Billon, director-general of the French Defence Technology and Procurement Agency (DGA) and General Jean-Paul Palomeros, chief of staff of the French Air Force.

The visit, which aims to expand the already robust bilateral military to military ties between the two countries, would also see the IAF chief visit Cognac, Istres and St.Dizier airbases of the French Air Force (FAF).

At St.Dizier, he would be visiting the Rafale Squadron to get a first hand impression of the jet selected by the IAF, as also to see Rafale's Production facilities at Merignac. He would also be interacting with the IAF's project management team members for the Mirage- 2000 Upgrade project...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/13349317.cms