Rafale News

[Olybrius]

The Rafale in Abu Dhabi will be expensive for Paris
La Tribune , June 15
...
From:
http://www.latribune.fr/journal/edit...r-a-paris.html

According to Hervé Morin (MoD) in a France-Info interview today, the figures given by La Tribune are fanciful , he gives to understand that's just a basis for discussions and the total cost should be under 2 billions.
He also said he's confident about Brazil.

From:
http://www.france-info.com/chronique...4993-9-10.html

[Olybrius]

France Asks Raytheon To Price New Paveway Batches
DefenseNews, June 14

Raytheon is replying to a French request for pricing information for the supply of additional Paveway II and Enhanced Paveway II guided bombs, Giles Deshcars, managing director of Raytheon France, said June 14 at the Eurosatory trade show.

The Paveway II is a laser-guided bomb, while the Enhanced Paveway II is a dual-mode GPS/laser-guided version.

The French authorities have asked for prices of ordering batches of the weapons, to be delivered over the next five years for the Super Etendard Modernisé strike fighter flown by the French Navy. The information would allow the French government to order batches of 100 or more at a time.

The Super Etendard of the Fleet Air Arm, which celebrates its 100th anniversary this year, flies close air support missions with the Paveway ordnance in the Afghan theatre.

The American-built bombs have not yet been qualified on the Rafale, as the weapons require integration with the sophisticated onboard avionics of the more advanced strike fighter.

http://defensenews.com/blogs/eurosat...veway-batches/

[Olybrius]

Istres meeting , June 2010:










From:
http://pics-aeronef.discutfree.com/m...2010-t5379.htm

[Olybrius]

French fighter sale talks with UAE moving forward: minister
AFP, June 15

PARIS — Technical talks on the sale of Rafale fighters to the United Arab Emirates are wrapping up, Defence Minister Herve Morin said Tuesday, adding that France was likely to pick up part of modernisation costs.

Regarding the improvements that the UAE is seeking to the multi-role aircraft, Morin said on France Info radio "that's a discussion we've been engaged in for months and which is in the course of being finalised".

Talks on acquiring the latest-generation French-made fighters began after the UAE expressed interest in 2008 in replacing its 60 ageing Mirage fighters.

Morin said the costs of the modernisation was in the order of two billion euros, not four to five billion euros as has been speculated, and that France would likely absorb some of the costs as it had planned to carry them out anyway.

Regarding Brazil, Morin said he "remains confident" that the Rafale will prevail.

The Rafale, made by Dassault, has yet to clinch a single overseas sale and is in competition with Sweden's Gripen NG by Saab and the F/A-18 Super Hornet manufactured by US giant Boeing.

The deal for 36 fighter planes is estimated to be worth between four and seven billion dollars, depending on details of armaments, maintenance and peripheral industrial involvement.

"We've established a relationship of trust with the Brazilians and they have never let us down," said Morin.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...EgS5ypnKxFgRYg

[signatory]

Hey, is there any other weapons loadout chart for the Rafale than this one that google sent me to... I don't know where it originally comes from. Seen it quoted on various forums.

Not covering the latest weapons so maybe there's a newer one available from Dassault somewhere?

Is it accurate ? (Other than for the weapons not integrated)

[Olybrius]

Wow ! AS30 ! no AASM ...this chart is old and need a serious update . I don't remember having seen something recent ... i'll search.

[Olybrius]

Dilma comes to Paris to meet Sarkozy
Estadao , June 15

The PT candidate for the presidency, Rousseff, arrived this morning to Paris, where she started her five-day tour through Europe.
[...]
The political commitments only happen tomorrow. In late morning, Dilma can find the general secretary of the Socialist Party (PS), Martine Aubry, on a schedule not yet confirmed. At 17 hours, it happens the most important meeting with President Nicolas Sarkozy at the Elysee Palace. It is hoped that the two will address, among other things, the sale of the French Dassault Rafale fighter jets to the Brazilian government.
[...]

From:
http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/n...y,566863,0.htm


Rousseff assists seleçao victory in Paris.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...LEyQaAVnTeT71A

[Olybrius]

After DSI , a new Rafale "special edition" by Air&Cosmos is now available , i'll post the most interesting parts...

[arthuro]

Thanks Olybrius !

I hope you will translate the most interesting parts...You did a great job with the DSI articles that was very much appreciated.

But I can't wait to give a leak of the Rafale vs Typhoon in Corsica

from my post on key :

Some news about the 9-1 for the rafale against the typhoon in corsica from Air&Cosmos. (Some other sources like in DSI said 8-0)

>>That were WVR gun dogfights only. (Nice pictures of Typhoon gun-locked in the magazine)

All the pilots from RAF and AdA were very experimented and the goal was to assess both aircraft when pitched against each other. RAF pilots were specialized in Air superiority missions only whereas rafale pilot dedicated a significant part of their flying hours to other missions.

The mission profile was chosen by the RAF in a configuration that would have theoretically put the Typhoon at an advantage.

aircrafts met at 18000 ft and 350kts with the same trajectory for 2km and then turned 45° (external turn) and then went head on against each other to start the dogfight.

Usually rafale pilots needed less than 40 seconds and three turns to have the upper hand and score a shot. For french pilots the results is explained by rafale superior FBW system and rafale ability to point its nose even at extremely slow speeds.

[Olybrius]

Duels over the sands
Air&Cosmos , June 2010

Saint-Dizier, November 8, 2009. a first wave of 3 Rafale from the 1 / 7 "Provence" squadron is leaving Haute-Marne for much more desert horizons. Heading to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and the Al Dhafra air base, to an exercise that any fighter pilot in the world would not want to miss, the Advanced Tactical Leadership Course (ATLC), organized annually by the UAE.
In total, 6 Rafale of the 1/7, in 2 waves of 3 aircrafts, join the UAE base in autumn 2009. They are accompanied by 15 pilots, with different backgrounds and experiences. All have the opportunity to come and train on an extraordinary playground: 3 times larger than the Red Flag "range", the Air Warfare Centre (AWC) was established in 2000 for Gulf countries and their key allies such as the United States, Britain and France, as well as other nations invited each year. The UAE AWC also has the latest equipment in the field of debrief missions, allowing very precise debriefing at the end of each mission.
In 2009, the Rafale participate ATLC for the first time. But another special guest shares the bill : the US F-22A Raptor, the U.S. Air Force has dispatched 6 aircraft attached to the 27th Fighter Squadron, based in Langley AFB.
Designed in the early 90s, the American fighter is the most modern fighter in service today. It combines extraordinary aerodynamic performance with a very large stealth, but also a weapon system built around a powerful AESA radar and passive sensors whose operation is similar in principle to those of Spectra. Tailored for high-altitude interception and BVR Combat, the Raptor knows how to defend itself in dogfight: it has a thrust vector that guides the air flow of its two reactors in the vertical plan, with overflow maneuverability in all phases of flight. On paper, the F-22A Raptor and the Rafale have not much in common. While the U.S. aircraft (the most expensive fighter in the world) was designed as the ultimate fighter aircraft, the french jet is a versatile and "affordable" combat aircraft. Both are not even competing on the international market because Washington refuses to export the Raptor, which must remain the "secret US boot" during an aerial war of high intensity.
The 2009 ATLC release will be the pretext of the first confrontation between the two aircraft ...

One defeat for five draws.

The U.S. Air Force, however, put strict conditions surrounding the confrontation: the Raptor will not participate in any BVR exercise with foreign aircraft. The American pilots only accept to confront in dogfight, 1 vs 1, against crews that participate in the exercise. Pilots of the 1/7 take their chance ... and the results will be rather promising: on 6 engagements, only one has resulted, according to the French aviators, with a straightforward victory for the F-22A. The other 5 have ended with a 'draw' ,a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: Dual protracted beyond a preset time,crossing of the floor set for the exercice ...
2 main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: the thrust vector and the enormous power conferred by its 2 reactors, which give each twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F22A maintains a formidable manceuvrability that allows it to leave the most delicate BFM situations; even if it loses a lot of energy during maneuvers with the highest angle of attack, this energy can be quickly recovered by its engines.
But the french pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor as invulnerable: "Facing an F-22A, the Rafale can be put in firing position but it must do it very quickly, lest the roles reversed if the battle drags on" summarizes a French aviator.
[...]
The performance of Spectra amaze:

The airmen of the "Provence" leave Al Dhafra on Dec. 12, after accumulating 320 flying hours in 182 missions. A large number of complex engagements have once again to the demonstration of the versatility of the french fighter. An example: during a mission hombardement, the number 2 of a patrol of 4 Rafale dropped six AASM GPS guided on six different objectives, while firing 3 Mica on hostile tracks ... all in barely more than a minute. The debriefing will show that the 6 objectives, far from nearly 50 km, have been destroyed, while two enemy aircraft were shot down by French missiles.
As for Red Flag, the French also praised the performance of Spectra in the location of air defense threats: the Rafale deployed to ATLC wouldhave been able to perfectly fulfill the mission of destroying enemy air defenses (SEAD) with the American F-16CJ, which is the main mission. A henceforth proven multirole ability that will allow the Rafale to finally make the difference with its competitors.

Stealth but not invisible: ATLC screenshots of the F-22A seen through the Rafale FSO


Captured and google translated from:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9236/17217511.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3563/12734516.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8959/92847677.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7546/88749758.jpg

[Sancho78]

India could therefore find themselves at the head of a fleet of more than 120 cheap and efficient Mirage, counting the 51 Mirage 2000 it already has, to be upgraded by Thales and Dassault Aviation, finally convinced. This led some to say that India could then take his time to manage the call for tenders for 127 new generation aircraft it has launched

Besides that India don't want more fighters without 4.5 capabilties (AESA radar/IRST...), wouldn't that reduce the chances for Rafale? The more time they have, the higher the chances that they will go for 5. gen fighters, because besides Pak Fa and possibly their own MCA development, the US offer also F35.

ah and congrats for this thread Olybrius, that's one of the best place on the whole web to keep being informed about the Rafale.

I second that!

[Sancho78]

Stealth but not invisible: ATLC screenshots of the F-22A seen through the Rafale FSO


Captured and google translated from:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9236/17217511.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3563/12734516.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8959/92847677.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7546/88749758.jpg

Great post, but wasn't there more about the exercise in Corsica that arthuro mentioned?

[Olybrius]

French and Bristish staff , Solenzara 2009

Enemy Brothers
Air&Cosmos - June 2010

Since birth, both were scheduled to compete. The wrestling (commercial) which has now engaged the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Rafale on the international scene has its roots in the early 80s, while Europe is seriously considering a joint development of a new multinational European fighter aircraft. France, United Kingdom and Germany are the main actors in a drama that will last many years. These last two countries, which have already collaborated in the Panavia consortium for the development of the Tornado are looking to replace a portion of their tactical fleet. For its part, France is trying, too, to have a fighter that can replace almost all of its combat aircraft. But from the beginning, the situation appears complex, whereas the English call for an air superiority aircraft class 11-12 tonnes, Paris argues for a device of only 9 tons. Moreover, the problems of industrial shares weigh down the prospects of cooperation including France, whose aeronautical companies ardently defend their plans to support the maintenance of their skills. In 1985, France announced it will develop alone its future combat aircraft. For their part, the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Spain will start the Eurofighter program. While France wants to start building a really multirole aircraft, the nations in the Eurofighter consortium finance the development of a superiority aircraft, designed for air to air combat. To date yet, the 'Typhoon has only very limited air-ground capabilities compared with the Rafale.

More thrust for the Typhoon

On paper, the Typhoon has some undeniable advantages: more powerful than M88, its two reactors give it a better weight/thrust than the Rafale. According to the Eurofighter pilots, this additional power would be particularly appreciable during simulated combat below 20,000 ft, where the density of air allows the engines to be fully expressed. In the battle beyond visual range (BVR), the Typhoon also has an greater "extension" than the Rafale. This is because of the the physical characteristics of the radar, which antenna "sees" futher than the RBE2-PESA, but also because of the dynamic performance of the American missile AIM-120 AMRAAM . Designed exclusively for medium-range interception, it certainly does not have the versatility of the Mica, but it is superior in terms of range. Facing a Rafale, these theoretical advantages, however, must be nuanced.
In BVR combat, although the lengthening of the radar and missiles of the Typhoon are superior, the french Rafale fighter's radar signature is, according to many pilots, much less important than the Eurofighter's one. It is therefore an asset. Even better: the sensors fusion which enjoys the Rafale is also a crucial advantage in BVR combat, because it offers the pilots a much better understanding of the tactical situation during combat, and this, 360 degrees around the aircraft.
Once the "merge" is reached (when BVR combat turns into short-range), the Rafale has still strong chances of victory against the Typhoon. In the opinion of French pilots who have confronted the European aircraft, it's above all the quality of the electric flight controls [FBW] of the French fighter who makes the difference. In dogfight, Rafale can quickly point its nose to the threat, while less degrading its energy than the Eurofighter does. And this partly because the maximum angle of attack of the Rafale is "clamped" around 300, which allows it to evolve in a controlled manner even at low speed.
This difference in terms of maneuverability is also illustrated by the position of the canard on the two planes: placed well in front of the fuselage on the Typhoon, they play the role of an additional control surface used to "steer" more quickly the nose of the plane to take the incidence.
Conversely, the Rafale ducks are located very near the delta wing and are used primarily to pick up the airflow to slow up the loss of lift on the wing, thus giving the pilot a full control of the aircraft at low speeds.

A first indisputable skirmish

The Armée de l' Air has been able to experience this superiority in dogfight in September 2009, during an exercise organized by the French and British headquarters, during a deployment on the Solenzara airbase in Corsica .
Few days , the EC-1/7 stands next with the Royal Air Force transformation squadron on typhoons. The English have thought of everything, and introduce to the French pilots the simulated engagement patterns they wish to practice facing the Rafale. The French pilots push back a smile: the conditions of the exercice are, on paper, custom-made for the Typhoons , they plan within visual range fights , 1 vs 1, under 20,000 ft and at 350 knots. Whatever. The 'Provence' squadron takes up the gauntlet ... The 2 planes take off, then meet up at 18 000 ft to start the exercise. The aircraft are flying on the same trajectory with about 2 km of lateral separation. "Turn Away" with this announcement, the pilots turn 45 ° outward, to move away from each other. A few seconds later, the "turn in" and the planes turn toward each other to meet face-to-face in the sky. Once both aircraft is within visual range , its the ultimate ad: "Fight's on!". The first skirmish is indisputable. It need less than 40 seconds and only 3 crossing for the Rafale pilot to have its gun in firing position. However, the pilots flying the two planes are far from beginners. While the English is considered a Typhoon specialist in air-to-air, the "Provence" pilot has also a solid experience in within visual range combat.

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.

A typhoon in trouble

Captured and google translated from:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4664/55922525.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1609/68450964.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4281/14300019.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8599/76080829.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3302/40848172.jpg

[Sancho78]

Thx! Btw, great pics of the GARUDA 2010 exercise, but when will the Rafale arrive?

[Olybrius]

Don't know, probably the second week