Rafale News

[Olybrius]

From Bleriot to Rafale: this week-end in Cambrai, 60000 visitors expected



Display : Red Arrows, Patrouille de France, F16, F18, Gripen, M2000, Rafale...

From:
http://www.meetingcambrai2010.fr/index.php?lang=en
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/breve...ai_ce_week_end

[TMor]

Interesting, but if I'm not wrong, the M88E4 just had improvements in terms of fuel consumption and longer life, but not for thrust. What was changed to achieve SC capabilities then?

Nothing.

There's nothing really new about the supercruise of Rafale. At Le Bourget 2007, Arthuro asked the Dassault's international support manager (Jean Paul Latriges), the guy told him :
-M 1.3 with 4 Mica ;
-M 1.2 with 4 Mica and a drop tank ;
-still supersonic with 2 drop tanks.
http://www.air-defense.net/forum/ind...html#msg217838

But, of course, you have to trust Arthuro, like I do, because there's no particular need for DA or FAF to talk about this obvious fact...

[Sancho78]

Nothing.

There's nothing really new about the supercruise of Rafale. At Le Bourget 2007, Arthuro asked the Dassault's international support manager (Jean Paul Latriges), the guy told him :
-M 1.3 with 4 Mica ;
-M 1.2 with 4 Mica and a drop tank ;
-still supersonic with 2 drop tanks.
http://www.air-defense.net/forum/ind...html#msg217838

But, of course, you have to trust Arthuro, like I do, because there's no particular need for DA or FAF to talk about this obvious fact...

Why? If the Rafale has SC capabilities, why not use it for PR reasons? It's not mentioned on their official site, or on any other advertisements right?

[Sancho78]

France offers to Indian Air Force for purchasing 40 Rafale fighters

A French company offered to sell 40 of its state-of-the-art aircraft Rafale fighter jets to India for a bi-lateral air exercise on Friday. An Indo-French joint exercise is to be held somewhere in India in 2011 – 12. The offer was made by the maker of the Rafale and Mirage fighters, Charles Edelstennie, who is also the scion of the Dassult family. Dessult is a multi-billion French military and civil aerospace company.
The chairman and chief executive of Dassult said, “We know the Indian Air Force, with which we have a decade-long close association, is facing force depletion. So we are ready to supply 40 Rafales, the world's first omni-role fighters to India, in a short span of time.”
The officers of French Air Force discussed the idea with the Indian Air Force team, which is now in France for a tri-lateral air exercise in which the Singapore air force is also involved. According to Edelastennie, Rafale fighters could be an interim sale to India to acquire 126 Multi Role Combat Aircraft at cost of Rs 40,000 crore. He said, “It is fulfilling the needs and tasks of the French air force and navy globally.
An Indian Air Force officer, who is the part of the Indian continent for Garuda-2010 exercise in Istres air base in France, said, “At present, the talks for the next Indo-French exercise are also on and the French officials have expressed their desire to bring the Rafale aircraft for the next joint air exercise likely to be held in 2011-12 in India.” The current exercise also reached its final stage and exercise will be finished tomorrow. K K Nowhar, Air Marshall of Indian Air Force, who visited the Indian contingent said, “Our participation in the exercise has reinforced the manner in which we conduct our operations.”

http://www.allindiatoday.com/7665/fr...afale-fighters


Nothing new actually, that was proposed before too, but I guess it is actual now because of the Garuda 2010 exercise.

[Olybrius]

No please Sancho , this article is absolutely not credible with many spelling mistakes and a totally ridiculous content:
"C.Edelastennie , the scion of the Dassult family offering to sell 40 rafales to India for a bi-lateral air exercise on Friday... with officers of French Air Force discussing the idea with the Indian Air Force team" ...

[Olybrius]

Albert , June 12, 2010:









From:
http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewt...er=asc&start=0

[TMor]

Why? If the Rafale has SC capabilities, why not use it for PR reasons? It's not mentioned on their official site, or on any other advertisements right?

Rafale A "supercruised" already... No surprise for series Rafale.

I'm not sure Dassault's PR for Rafale talks about the kinetic performance.

[Olybrius]

Embraer and FX2:

Embraer bet on aircraft export to France
Valor Fim de Semana via Ansalatina , June 26

SAO PAULO, 26 (ANSA) - The Brazilian Embraer aircraft factory is confident about the export of freighters to the french armed forces, as part of the military accord between Brazil and Paris, including the purchase of French military aircraft.
Frederico Curado, president of Embraer, estimates that there are possibilities to sell the freighters KC-390 to the French Armed forces, published the weekend magazine. Brazil is negotiating with France the purchase of 36 Rafale bombers within a strategic defense agreement that also includes French submarines and helicopters.
Defense Minister Nelson Jobim, established as a requirement to import the Rafale, the import of Brazilian freighters by France, said the weekend magazine of the daily Valor.
The President Luiz Lula da Silva and Nicolas Sarkozy have addressed the issue in May, as it emerged in the local press.
Frederico Curado said that, despite informal talks, "we still have no guarantees" that Paris will buy the cargo. Curado said Paris signed a document by which it was committed to yield Embraer secret technologies of its jets. So that in the future, it will be built in brazil.
Brasilia will announce later if it will acquire the French fighters, or choose those built in the U.S. or Sweden.

http://www.ansa.it/ansalatina/notizi...535103802.html

For the record:

[...]Also the participation of the Embraer was secured in all the stages of the project.Besides, the enterprise negotiates with France the development and sale of the military freighter KC-390.[...]
Embraer also wins, and very much.If the Gripen was elected, Embraer hardly would participate of the project. With the Rafale, it will be leading the process. The enterprise also involves the development and the commercialization of the freighter KC-390 in the business.[...]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5031927

[JBH22]

Rafale et Mirage 2000 at Salon du Bourget

[Sancho78]

As I said, that is not really new, there were reports of such an offer before and I think it just came up again, because of the Garuda exercise.
However, it would make no sense to buy them now, when MMRCA is heading to the final stages. If Rafale wins (what I hope), it will be probably one bigger deal by next year. I expect the same 3 fighters to be shortlisted just like in Brazil, because they offer the best mix of advantages, but it will be not as easy for Dassault. The F18SH offers more political advantages and the Gripen NG is more cost-effective, will be interesting to see who wins.

[Olybrius]

i agree, no sense to buy them now

[Olybrius]

Generally , i don't quote posts from other forums but this one is very interesting because the poster is a well-known Brazilian journalist (Correio Braziliense / Valor econômico / Jane’s defence) and because what he says match informations coming from other sources:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5031927

Pedro Paulo Rezende, June 27

Because of complaints that came to my knowledge I went to check on the ground if there were changes in the report issued by the Navy regarding the use of the Rafale on board the Sampa [Sampa = Sao Paulo aircraft carrier]. Monday afternoon, friends of MB [Brazilian Navy] and FAB gave me access to the document submitted to Defence Minister and which contains the explanatory memorandum which will be submitted to President Lula.

The signing of the commanders of both forces shows that they were the originals documents. Some points:

1. From the Sao Paulo, the Rafale can operate with only 40% of its capacity [payload], which could be minimized with a refueling after takeoff;
2. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is unable to operate our aircraft carriers. Its dry weight is beyond the capacity of the wiring, Its length is greater than that of elevators and catapults would not be able to launch it;
3. Even the Gripen navy, which exists only in theory, can only function with a capacity of 80%.

The document prepared by the Navy contains verbatim the explanatory memorandum and indicates that the 3 would operate smoothly with the future aircraft carrier class of 50000 tons to be operated by the Navy. This material, prepared by COPAC and reviewed by the High Command of Aeronautics has been valided. What has changed are the weights assigned to each element. A good example: in the original settings, established in 1995, the weight of technology transfer was 9%. In contrast, the weight of price and maintenance costs were 30 and 40%. No wonder the F/A-18E/F was the winners of the process. The generals have pushed the engineers to accept what they had established themselves as a rule! Jobim returned because that does not meet the assumptions of the new END [national defense strategy .. which favors technological independance]

In the new criteria established with the national defense strategy, the technology package is now worth 40%. It is worth noting that the recalculation of the scores have been prepared by COPAC. In the process, ended 75 days ago [!], the Rafale has emerged as the winner because it has scored regularly on all points.[...] Others competitors scored excellent on some points, but showed a weak performance [latimavel?] in others.

The Super Hornet has been heavily penalized by U.S. law, which prohibits the government from establishing compensation with other states. Everything depends only from the manufacturers, who can not afford the purchase of aircraft for the armed forces of Uncle Sam, for example. For its part, the Gripen present higher risks, according COPAC itself . The Swedes could not even show a spreadsheet about the costs of the F-414 because it was copyrighted by the U.S. Navy. Just to give you an idea, the volume of pages about this issue is equivalent to the amount of pages used to describe the risks of the two others competitors.
There are doubts about the performance of the radar, on the sustainability of the cell, on the implementation of the program and also some devastating certainties, like the fact that, with limited interior space and a lower capacity of energy production , the Gripen offers smaller developments than its competitors. Boys, I read it: written by Copac itself! Furthermore, it was rated slightly higher than the Rafale on the issue of technology transfer, but not enough to overcome its weaknesses and achieve trade compensation by france, which guarantees the purchase of 12 KC-390 and the participation of Dassault in the Embraer program.

About the explanatory memorandum, it is a masterpiece from a methodological point of view. Each phrase refers to an attached document, including the explanatory memorandum sent in December by the Air Force Command, which uses color coding to highlight the strengths, weaknesses, and the median for each unit ... [Exactly what said Istoe... some leaks were more credible than others ..]

For health reasons, I moved away from the forums. […] I hope I have been helpful to the debate.

Moreover, the Navy will operate 48 aircraft on its two units in the future.

Abracos

Pepe

Goggle translation from:
http://defesabrasil.com/forum/viewto...52&start=41760

[Olybrius]

Rafale solo display, Cambrai , June 26:(click for full size)





From(with great F15E pics):
http://pics-aeronef.discutfree.com/m...2010-t5449.htm

[Olybrius]

As I said, that is not really new, there were reports of such an offer before and I think it just came up again, because of the Garuda exercise.
However, it would make no sense to buy them now, when MMRCA is heading to the final stages. If Rafale wins (what I hope), it will be probably one bigger deal by next year. I expect the same 3 fighters to be shortlisted just like in Brazil, because they offer the best mix of advantages, but it will be not as easy for Dassault. The F18SH offers more political advantages and the Gripen NG is more cost-effective, will be interesting to see who wins.

Finally perhaps you're right...From a more reliable source:

Dassault Reiterates Pitch To IAF For 40 Fast-Track Rafales

Livefist, June 28

Senior Dassault officials in France briefed visiting Indian Air Force AOC-in-C Eastern Air Command, Air Marshal KK Nowhar, about the Rafale and reiterated the company's willingness/ability to rapidly supply 40 Rafales to the IAF as a stopgap ahead of the MMRCA competition results. Dassault's pitch plays on the IAF squadron depletions, and the assertion that none of the other MMRCA contenders can deliver new jets as quickly as it can. The offer is a reiteration of what French prez Nicolas Sarkozy brought with him when he visited India in January 2008 -- ostensibly to help the IAF maintain its combat edge in the face of a possible delay in the outcome of the MMRCA competition. French Air Force Rafales did not participate in the just concluded Garuda-2010 air exercise, though it has been decided that four Rafales will fly to India at the end of next year for Garuda-2011.

From:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06...af-for-40.html

[JBH22]

In terms of price we all know Rafale is expensive i like that aircraft a lot would like to see it IAF,but how it fairs in terms of maintenance,ruggedness compared to the Gripen,EF-2000