Rafale News

[signatory]

Sir,
I gave you an interview the 15th of november at Natal during the Cruzex V exercice.

I have made a lapse regarding one date and I would be very pleased if you could correct it in the interview. Concerning the radar AESA, starting from the end of 2013, all Rafale deliveries will be with the AESA Radar. 2017 is a wrong date.

Thank you for your comprehension.

GBA Dominique De Longvilliers

Poder Aéreo

[Sancho78]

sellf delete

[m.i.t]

I think the cost issue is the biggest problem for Rafale especially of weapons, spares and possibly future upgrades (look at Mirage 2000 upgrade costs for India, or Greek now). There is a little doubt about the quality, or capabilities of it, but it is costlier than comparable Gripen, or F16 versions, what makes it difficult on export markets.

?

l didnt know this . Greek or Indian friends may share their knowledge about M2K cost issues . Actually Greece retired all Mirage F1s which are younger fighters than A-7s are still active.

As l knew French fighters ( msytere and mirage series) were economic alternatives of US made jets for noncommunists countries.

[IamMarco]

i guess the usa are able to offer spare parts at cheaper prices than france due to mass production and to cannibalization from retired aircraft in their depot.
i heard that taiwan was on the verge of retiring the mirage2000 even if they were more capable than F-16 due to higher maintenance cost.

probably they are able to supply the greek A-7 with spare parts taken from mothballed aircraft.

[Kongjun33]

i guess the usa are able to offer spare parts at cheaper prices than france due to mass production and to cannibalization from retired aircraft in their depot.
i heard that taiwan was on the verge of retiring the mirage2000 even if they were more capable than F-16 due to higher maintenance cost.

probably they are able to supply the greek A-7 with spare parts taken from mothballed aircraft.

You re badly informed on Taiwan Mirage fleet, Pal. The maintenance cost of french warplanes was not the real problem. And the french bird remains as an excellent interceptor. Definitely the best one for the ROCAF. But France was under chinese presssure recently, and did not supply Taiwan in good condition. The problem of spare parts is now solved. And US lobbyist wing in Taiwan used this story to refresh the F-16 C/D deal. In vain! Obama administration is not willing to sell them now. Will they even sell them in 2012? I don't think so, since the USA debt is now in the hands of the RPC... Bad.

Back to the Rafale subject.

[Sancho78]

l didnt know this . Greek or Indian friends may share their knowledge about M2K cost issues . Actually Greece retired all Mirage F1s which are younger fighters than A-7s are still active.

As l knew French fighters ( msytere and mirage series) were economic alternatives of US made jets for noncommunists countries.

It's about the upgrade of Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard, IAF wants to upgrade 51 of them to this level and Dassault answered with costs of around $40 million each (including new radar, avionics and weapons). The fighter will be very capable of course and IAF officials wants it too, but the high costs caused big waves in the Indian public and media, especially because there were reports about an upgrade offer from Israel with a similar package, but way cheaper. Also 69 IAF Mig 29 will be upgraded, but for half the costs, although they will get even a new set of engines too.
This issue and the already high costs for Rafale are the most quoted arguments against the Rafale in MMRCA related discussions, because everybody expects similar high upgrade costs in future for Rafale too.

[Kongjun33]

It's about the upgrade of Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard, IAF wants to upgrade 51 of them to this level and Dassault answered with costs of around $40 million each (including new radar, avionics and weapons). The fighter will be very capable of course and IAF officials wants it too, but the high costs caused big waves in the Indian public and media, especially because there were reports about an upgrade offer from Israel with a similar package, but way cheaper. Also 69 IAF Mig 29 will be upgraded, but for half the costs, although they will get even a new set of engines too.
This issue and the already high costs for Rafale are the most quoted arguments against the Rafale in MMRCA related discussions, because everybody expects similar high upgrade costs in future for Rafale too.

That s your point of view of anti-french industry. Recently Pakistans want to replace the JF-17 chinese avionic, by french one. French are not the cheapest in the world, but they proved the quality of their technology and know how.

[filochard]

It's about the upgrade of Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard, IAF wants to upgrade 51 of them to this level and Dassault answered with costs of around $40 million each (including new radar, avionics and weapons). The fighter will be very capable of course and IAF officials wants it too, but the high costs caused big waves in the Indian public and media, especially because there were reports about an upgrade offer from Israel with a similar package, but way cheaper. Also 69 IAF Mig 29 will be upgraded, but for half the costs, although they will get even a new set of engines too.
This issue and the already high costs for Rafale are the most quoted arguments against the Rafale in MMRCA related discussions, because everybody expects similar high upgrade costs in future for Rafale too.

Sure Dassault have to change its policy about parts they used to sell at gold price. Signs show that this is changing already.

Now keep in mind that perhaps the Israeli offer was very interesting but in the end the IAF chose the Thales offer, so the Thales offer is probably better if costlier.
As for the Mig 29 upgrade, first if they changed the engine it's probably because it needed to be changed contrary to the Mirage one. Second only once both type, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 had been upgraded, one can compare them and see what's best for the money. Lets not forget also that the upgrade includes some MICA missiles on the price, an expensive but terribly efficient missile, the nightmare for any opponent, even the french themselves don't know how to counter them when both the EM and IR variants are fired at the same time.
Now about Taiwan I'm glad the parts issue is solved, notably about there MICA, I hope Taiwan can keep them in good operational condition.

[lapinschous1]

huh, i won't disturb your conversation , but i'm just wondering: what about the fx-2 project, i've read nothing about it since the dilma roussef's election.... :/

[Olybrius]

Decision expected before December 19

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5304702
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5309749

[Olybrius]

An interesting news about France and UAE relationships, even if its not directly linked to the Rafale:
The 13th DBLE (Demi-Brigade de Legion Etrangere), the FFL unit based in Djibouti, could definitively leave Djibouti for the french base in Abu Dhabi.
From:
http://www.marianne2.fr/blogsecretde...alise_a39.html

For the record:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post5317939

[Olybrius]

The Rafale is back in Afghanistan
Le Mamouth, Nov 26

The CDG aircraft carrier sent yesterday its first broadside of Rafale and Hawkeye operate over Afghanistan. This commitment in support of ISAF should last a little less than forty days.

From:
http://lemamouth.blogspot.com/2010/1...ghanistan.html

[lapinschous1]

According to Geledraak.nl , the chinese J10 looks suspiciously like the Rafale but with a different single-engine air intake.. not a striking resemblance i think

It seems closer from the Typhoon than the Rafale... But maybe the both have a similar shape. 0o

[Olybrius]

RafaleNews reports Cne Romain's comment after meeting the French pilots who were at Cruzex:

Brazilian pilots in love with the Rafale
RafaleNews , Nov 26

Well at least, that what the french Rafale pilot Captain Romain is telling on his blog :
[...]
From now on, the Brazilians were able to fly on Rafale and their pilots are now, as every pilot who has tested the Rafale, merely in love of a fully omnirole and operational aircraft.
[...]

More:
http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2010/...th-rafale.html
Original link
http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-ro...urdhui#c377149

Btw Romain doesn't seem to give much credibility to the so-called Longvilliers interview published by a brazilian tabloid/blog

[lapinschous1]

RafaleNews reports Cne Romain's comment after meeting the French pilots who were at Cruzex:

So , good news for our jetfighter on the horizon!