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Thread: Rafale News

  1. #691
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    ^
    What a bunch of bollocks. Pretty much everything is off in regards to Gripen. I'll give my view on the separate parts but not this saturday evening perhaps.

    In a recent mock exercise with the U.S. Navy, the French jets "dropped" six F-18 and lost only two aircraft. The U.S. pilots said they could only see the Rafale on the radar when it was too late to react. Now, who needs to act fast is the Brazilian government.
    Very good on the French and Rafale, I hold both in high regard. Swedish Air Force with Gripen A and C have held exercises with the Finnish Air Force F-18's for a few years now and is reported to never have lost a plane.

    In the Gripen thread there is a recent post on the Hungarian Air Force participation in the NATO Tiger Meet. It featured Gripens, F-16's from the other NATO nations and Swiss F-18's. The Hungarians reported they lost two planes and dropped sixteen.
    Last edited by Breerman; 12-19-2009 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #692
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Very interesting Arthuro, it confirms the french sources claiming the Brazilians don't trust the swedish offer. So, if the Rafale is too expensive, i understand the SH could be a very good alternative; but i read they don't want to buy US for political reasons (Lula..) and because they don't trust the U.S. for a full technology transfer.
    Dassault should make a special effort .

  3. #693
    Senior Member Martel's Avatar
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    hmmm, see the picture of the Rafale in "disputa acirrada"

  4. #694
    Senior Member Olybrius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breerman View Post
    ^
    What a bunch of bollocks. Pretty much everything is off in regards to Gripen. I'll give my view on the separate parts but not this saturday evening perhaps.


    Very good on the French and Rafale, I hold both in high regard. Swedish Air Force with Gripen A and C have held exercises with the Finnish Air Force F-18's for a few years now and is reported to never have lost a plane.

    In the Gripen thread there is a recent post on the Hungarian Air Force participation in the NATO Tiger Meet. It featured Gripens, F-16's from the other NATO nations and Swiss F-18's. The Hungarians reported they lost two planes and dropped sixteen.
    lol take it easy , it means nothing and that's not the most interesting part of the article....

    btw; about the source:

    ISTO… - Launched in may in 1976- Periodicity: weekly
    Daring, inquisitive, ethical. Three words that portray ISTO… - a combination of credibility and transparency that make it a unique publication. And it is due to this profile the magazine ranks among the ten major informative publications in the world, having a paramount importance in the history of Brazil and the Brazilian journalism.
    http://editora3.terra.com.br/publici...gles/index.htm

    mmm ad

    500 000 ex., Brazil, weekly. Founded in 1977, "ISTOE" is one of the main brazilian weekly . Critic of the Brazilian society, ISTO… is magazine which disturb. Liberal and center left, Istoe is published in S„o Paulo
    Last edited by Olybrius; 12-19-2009 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #695

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breerman View Post
    ^
    What a bunch of bollocks. Pretty much everything is off in regards to Gripen. I'll give my view on the separate parts but not this saturday evening perhaps.


    Very good on the French and Rafale, I hold both in high regard. Swedish Air Force with Gripen A and C have held exercises with the Finnish Air Force F-18's for a few years now and is reported to never have lost a plane.

    In the Gripen thread there is a recent post on the Hungarian Air Force participation in the NATO Tiger Meet. It featured Gripens, F-16's from the other NATO nations and Swiss F-18's. The Hungarians reported they lost two planes and dropped sixteen.
    Do we know the ROE in any of the contests???

  6. #696

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    Breeman,

    rafale was opposed to the Super Hornet while the gripen was opposed to the hornet. That a totally different generation...

    This is quite a difference in radar, MMI, SA, RCS etc etc perfromance.

    One of the last rafale encounter against the Super Hornet was against the Block2...mind you with AESA and everything !

  7. #697

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    [*******#ff0000]In a recent mock exercise with the U.S. Navy, the French jets "dropped" six F-18 and lost only two aircraft. The U.S. pilots said they could only see the Rafale on the radar when it was too late to react. Now, who needs to act fast is the Brazilian government.[/COLOR]

    As always the "devil" can be in the details??? First, I "assume" the F-18's were Super Hornets and not older Hornets??? Plus, during the ACM were all the aircraft Flying Clean or with External Tanks and Missiles???


    Oh, and what about the ROE???

  8. #698

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    To know the ROE is always better I agree...But if you want to know everything each time you won't debate on anything.

    So it is not perfect as we don't know the ROE, but that is not a reason to dodge the debate.

    If this encounter was totally irrelevant because of execissvely restrictive ROE then that would't be brought as an example in a technical evaluation.
    I bet The FAB has enough experts to understand this problematic.

    I found facinating that each time there is sometning which doesn't fit your opinion then some people will fight to descredit the fact finding all the "what if ?" possibilities. We should take it as it is : not a perfect information as we don't know the ROE but still a valid point as it was taken into account by the FAB.

  9. #699

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter2 View Post
    As always the "devil" can be in the details??? First, I "assume" the F-18's were Super Hornets and not older Hornets???
    Actually, the original Hornet is better suited for dogfights than the Super Hornet. It is faster, maintains E better, has faster acceleration and higher turn rates.

    Well, according to the guys that fly them anyways.

  10. #700

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    Quote Originally Posted by tidls View Post
    Actually, the original Hornet is better suited for dogfights than the Super Hornet. It is faster, maintains E better, has faster acceleration and higher turn rates.

    Well, according to the guys that fly them anyways.

    But ths SH is a superior BVR platform as it is relevant in the quoted example...

    I doubt that the SH should waited to come to visual range to detect a rafale. they are certainly talking about BVR...I hope for the SH otherwise I will have doubt over its radar capabilities !

  11. #701

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    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    But ths SH is a superior BVR platform as it is relevant in the quoted example...

    I doubt that the SH should waited to come to visual range to detect a rafale. they are certainly talking about BVR...I hope for the SH otherwise I will have doubt over its radar capabilities !
    I'm aware that the Super Hornet is a better machine in BVR compared to the original Hornet. I also believe they're talking BVR. The Rafale is more than a match for the Super Hornet. BVR or WVR.

  12. #702

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    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    To know the ROE is always better I agree...But if you want to know everything each time you won't debate on anything.

    So it is not perfect as we don't know the ROE, but that is not a reason to dodge the debate.

    If this encounter was totally irrelevant because of execissvely restrictive ROE then that would't be brought as an example in a technical evaluation.
    I bet The FAB has enough experts to understand this problematic.

    I found facinating that each time there is sometning which doesn't fit your opinion then some people will fight to descredit the fact finding all the "what if ?" possibilities. We should take it as it is : not a perfect information as we don't know the ROE but still a valid point as it was taken into account by the FAB.

    Personally, I doubt most members would consider asking for the ROE or how the aircraft were equipped. As being out of line or unreasonable???

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    Breeman,

    rafale was opposed to the Super Hornet while the gripen was opposed to the hornet. That a totally different generation...

    This is quite a difference in radar, MMI, SA, RCS etc etc perfromance.

    One of the last rafale encounter against the Super Hornet was against the Block2...mind you with AESA and everything !
    Like I said, nothing but good on Rafale. However in the same way I point out that Gripen has been flying everything from Red Flag Alaska to NATO exercises in Europe. This summer Sweden hosted Loyal Arrow exercise with 8 participating countries and 50 aircrafts (F-15, F-16, F/A-18 etc.).

    That a totally different generation...
    I'm personally not a fan of the idea of calling it generation shifts when it's upgrades within the same plane type. Same mechanisms as in gender shifts, the doctor might shift some parts but the DNA is still there.

  14. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    One of the last rafale encounter against the Super Hornet was against the Block2...mind you with AESA and everything !
    Which encounter was that? The one where the F-18 pilot's radar was almost useless until it was too "late?"

  15. #705
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    Spectra ECM is beyond doubt very good - possibly the best in Europe. However, I'm surprised that the US would expose the family jewels to the French as I'm told they are reluctant to use the full range of modes in training with allies. Were'nt they very suspicous of Rafales in red flag - even accusing them of electronically snooping ?
    Also - would the French want to expose their hand ?

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