Germany's Afghanistan Contingent News and Discussions Thread

[muck]

A German soldier in Afghanistan has died from natural causes.

Rest in Peace.


In addition to that, a joint German and Afghan patrol was "repeatedly" ambushed northwards off Kunduz and "repelled" the attacks with force. No casualties among allied troops were reported.

[Silent Reader]

40% is alot higher than i had imagined it to be. If the German government were to formally announce the mission as a counter insurgency mission and to "**** off" the peacekeeping pretension, could support rise or drop? I figure with the 1,000 troop increase, those of which will be infantry troops mainly or just logistic/support? And are KSK numbers included in the troop numbers?

I think a bit of both but mostly non-combat troops. i once read (don't remember where) that the 3500 limit was so narrow that they had to withdraw firefighters etc from their bases in order to be able to put up the Quick Reaction Force. So a few hundred of the additional 1000 troops would be troops that should already be there (logistics, firefighter etc) but are in fact not because the current mandate is to small.
Then there is a discussion about contributing personal to the planned AWACS mission over Afghanistan... i guess these would also fall in this mandate. besides this the politicians said they only want to sent about 700 additional troops with the other 300 being reserves.

So I wouldn't expect to much in terms of combat troops from the new mandate

[pInGu]

Good Summary. Even thow I don't think KSK soldiers died. Sorry, but I can't imagine all families would keep silence about that. Thats impossibel in our country

And for the drugs: Nobody forces our people to take drugs. So what, there are some more drugs produced, but it has never been a problem to get them before... .

[MajorTom]

Your answer was massively contradictory, I'm surprised that you did not spot it on your own. You've just admitted that the Taliban could actually attack Germany if given a reason (by Germany continuing the war against them).

If you read it again, you ll notice I did not mention Taliban doing the strike.
Some wannabe terrorists who are offended because their "brothers" are killed by the BW could do it by themselves.
Taliban/Afghans are only minding their own business in A-stan and fighting the foreign troops in there like they have done hundreds of years. In the long run all foreign armies had to leave the place. Same is going to happen again. Thus its waste of money, men and prestige.

Hopefully your politicians do the right decisions in this difficult situation and the soldiers of the BW does not pay too high price of the involvement.

Viel Glück Kameraden!

[seventy6er]

Hopefully your politicians do the right decisions in this difficult situation and the soldiers of the BW does not pay too high price of the involvement.

Viel Glück Kameraden!

Where are you from, Major Tom?

[muck]

Some wannabe terrorists who are offended because their "brothers" are killed by the BW could do it by themselves.

And you buy that they would dain to leave us in peace if we withdrew after we had already killed their brothers?

Taliban/Afghans are only minding their own business in A-stan and fighting the foreign troops in there like they have done hundreds of years.

The Taliban as a political and military movement have not even been existing for twenty years, how come they did the fighting for "hundreds of years" in your eyes? Additionally - even if you do not want to hear it - the Afghan and the Taliban stance towards the presence of foreign troops is a different kettle of fish. Most Afghans support foreign troops, why at all should they be for the Taliban anyway? Large parts of the Afghan population are not of Pashtun descent, so they were oppressed by the Taliban during the brief period they ruled the country.

In the long run all foreign armies had to leave the place.

A basic knowledge in history makes me think different. The British defeated the Afghans crushlingy in the Second Anglo-Afghan War and left the country after they had achieved all of their aims. Other armies were successfull as well when they employed determined tactics.

Same is going to happen again.

Again, how can you be that sure.

Thus its waste of money, men and prestige.

Please elaborate if you don't mind. I've pointed out the reasons before why I don't regard theses aspects as valid arguments.

[MajorTom]

Where are you from, Major Tom?

Mars, mightiest of planets.

Muck,

We could continue this for eternity. All is said already and the future ll tell how it vent.

[muck]

Two dead and ten wounded in three weeks. The situation has become nasty for us, too.

[Silent Reader]

Two dead and ten wounded in three weeks. The situation has become nasty for us, too.

But one of the dead didn't die because of hostile actions and wasn't even in Afghanistan at the time. But still the situation is far from improving.

[muck]

A poll of conservative daily "Die Welt"

"Should Germany send more troops to Afghanistan?"

Yes - 13%
No - 11 %
Germany should not deploy troops to other countries at all - 76%

'Nuff said.

[variable]

Thank god we don't have plebiscites in such situations in Germany.

The common German might have an opinion on everything but certainly not the farsight to decide things that important

[Mackie]

A poll of conservative daily "Die Welt"

"Should Germany send more troops to Afghanistan?"

Yes - 13%
No - 11 %
Germany should not deploy troops to other countries at all - 76%

'Nuff said.

In the 80s the question would be "Should Germany keep his own military?"
Yes - 30%
No - 70 %

So it's still a good progress.

[Fuschimuschi]

In the 80s the question would be "Should Germany keep his own military?"
Yes - 30%
No - 70 %

So it's still a good progress.

Lol. I guess you're right.

[muck]

Thank god we don't have plebiscites in such situations in Germany.

The common German might have an opinion on everything but certainly not the farsight to decide things that important

You've named it. Ordinary Germans always ask themselves why the government is not listening to them in similiar situations, but how could you trust people who do not even know the name of their own president?

[kato2k6]

40% is alot higher than i had imagined it to be. If the German government were to formally announce the mission as a counter insurgency mission and to "**** off" the peacekeeping pretension, could support rise or drop?

Drop, fast. Both in the general population and among parliament members.

Currently, two parties (Greens and Left) are calling for the troops to be withdrawn, collecting 104 out of 610 seats in parliament behind them - so the mandate is rather safe at the moment. Presumably the next mandate approval will get less than the 453 votes in favour that the last got.

An unbeatable argument, the money. Germany is spending ridiculously little sums on the redevelopment in Afghanistan.

Something that everyone can be accused of; additionally, most money flowing into Afghanistan is swallowed up in corruption and primarily Western companies vastly overcharging for construction there.

Germany is currently investing about 200-250 million Euro into Afghanistan per year. Unlike certain other donators, this German money however is not invested primarily into CMC construction projects, i.e. streets, bridges and airports to support the military effort. Especially in RC(E), the amount of this CMC construction is outright ridiculous, and all paid for with "aid money", without the Afghan government having a say in that.

Germany remains the second-largest development aid donator worldwide btw, after the USA, and significantly ahead of the UK, France and Japan.

but never Heroin from Afghanistan.

Afghan heroin has significantly dropped market prices in Germany, flushing the market over the last 5 years.
Depending on where you are in Germany, the market is vastly different though. Both Heroin and cocaine are ruling the streets only in the bigger cities, in other places it's currently primarily amphetamines, and to some extent acid; cannabis selling anywhere of course, and being rather widespread.
So, unless you're in Frankfurt or Munich, your dealer won't have Black Afghan in his portfolio anyway.