Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Rand Denies Reports of JSF Evaluation

  1. #1

    Default Rand Denies Reports of JSF Evaluation

    Statement Regarding Media Coverage of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter


    (Source: Rand Corporation; issued Sept. 25, 2008)



    Andrew Hoehn, Director of RAND Project Air Force, made the following statement today:

    “Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved.

    Those reports are not accurate.

    RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat.

    Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft.”


    (EDITOR’S NOTE: Over the past fortnight, various reports in the Australian press have claimed that the F-35/JSF was thoroughly defeated during a US Air Force computer war game held in August in Hawaii. The latest reports also claimed that a study prepared for the war game by the Rand Corp. had concluded that the F-35 was comprehensively outperformed by Sukhoi fighters operated by the Chinese and Russian air forces.
    Before Rand issued the above statement, Australian Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon had already denied that the F-35 had been evaluated in the wargame.)

    -ends-

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...modele=release

  2. #2

    Default

    Surprise, surprise. Just another attempt by the F-35 haters to discredit a good airplane because they can't get the toy they really want, the F-22. Get over it, and find some way to actually appreciate one of the more amazing jet fighters ever designed.

  3. #3
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    13,021

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DesktopArmor View Post
    Surprise, surprise. Just another attempt by the F-35 haters to discredit a good airplane because they can't get the toy they really want, the F-22. Get over it, and find some way to actually appreciate one of the more amazing jet fighters ever designed.
    Surprise, surprise. Just another attempt by the F-35 lovers to support a bad airplane because they won't realize its **** compared to the F-22.

    j/k

    But as far as the "amazing jet" part is concerned, we will see when it is flying for real

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bruisercruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Twerking in your backyard.
    Posts
    1,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seruriermarshal View Post
    Statement Regarding Media Coverage of F-35 Joint Strike Fighter


    (Source: Rand Corporation; issued Sept. 25, 2008)



    Andrew Hoehn, Director of RAND Project Air Force, made the following statement today:

    “Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved.

    Those reports are not accurate.

    RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat.

    Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft.”


    (EDITOR’S NOTE: Over the past fortnight, various reports in the Australian press have claimed that the F-35/JSF was thoroughly defeated during a US Air Force computer war game held in August in Hawaii. The latest reports also claimed that a study prepared for the war game by the Rand Corp. had concluded that the F-35 was comprehensively outperformed by Sukhoi fighters operated by the Chinese and Russian air forces.
    Before Rand issued the above statement, Australian Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon had already denied that the F-35 had been evaluated in the wargame.)

    -ends-

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...modele=release

    OK then who were the sources quoted from the previous article stating the F-35s got the fannies beaten?

  5. #5
    Member Jurinko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Central Europe
    Posts
    627

    Default

    I think we have to wait for the Red Flag 2010 and we will see.

  6. #6
    Senior Member signatory's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Terra firma
    Posts
    10,694

    Default

    What.. some non-industry media posted not 100% accurate info about a military product?

    Oh, my goodness.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rapier55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    What a surprise . I'm not a big fan of the F-35 program. However, I find the criticism excessive given the plane is barely flying and those briefed on its most classified aspects feel very confident about the plane.

  8. #8
    Senior Member signatory's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Terra firma
    Posts
    10,694

    Default

    Download infamous RAND air power briefing.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...d-air-pow.html

    Pages of interest:

    [IMG]http://i36.*******.com/10p3h3cdotjpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://i38.*******.com/10giadydotjpg[/IMG]

    Well by this account it does look like the media more or less just reported what was written in the RAND briefing... minus a unfair headline or so.
    Last edited by signatory; 09-26-2008 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Member oscarni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    UK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    314

    Default

    The F-35 fan boys that keep telling us about the first shoot ability... sure... when was the last time the US have used that ability in the last few conflicts?

    ::sigh:: Hopefully it will live up to all those promises, otherwise alot of airforces around the world are going to come up against a rock and a hard place. You all remember what happened to last triservice aircraft the US tried to produce, the F-111, look how well that turned out?

    - Phil

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by signatory View Post
    Download infamous RAND air power briefing.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...d-air-pow.html

    Pages of interest:

    *
    *

    Well by this account it does look like the media more or less just reported what was written in the RAND briefing... minus a unfair headline or so.
    That took an interesting turn, thanks for posting.

    I remember reading somewhere that the F-35 was supposed to be "70% Air to Ground and 30% Air to Air". It makes you wonder why they've designated it Fighter 35.

  11. #11
    Senior Member xav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    13,021

    Default

    THanks for the link and pics SIGNATORY...

    I understand that some people on discussion boards might spell Rafale "RAFAEL", but the RAND spelling it RAFAEL too? wtf?

  12. #12
    Senior Member signatory's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Terra firma
    Posts
    10,694

    Default Update

    Leaked Rand analysis questions USAF fighter strategy, sparks inadvertent F-35 crisis

    By Stephen Trimble

    A leaked briefing about a recent Taiwan Straits war game has developed rapidly into an international crisis for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter programme.

    The leaked Rand analysis obtained by Flight International reveals deep concerns about the US Air Force's current air dominance strategy relying on stealth, forward basing and beyond visual range kills.

    Despite the report's impact on the F-35 programme, the Lockheed Martin stealth fighter is mentioned only briefly on a back-up slide. The F-35 was not singled out for criticism, but neither did its appearance in the war game measurably improve the blue force's odds of success.

    "Rand did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat," Rand says. "Neither the game nor the assessments by Rand in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft."

    Maj Gen Charles Davis, chief of the F-35 joint programme office, and Lockheed Martin executive Tom Burbage attacked critical press coverage based on the Rand report, and attempted to reassure sensitive international partners nearing major acquisition decisions.

    The frequency and timing of the published attacks, as well as their "completely" errant content, has prompted Davis to suspect foul play.

    "It's disappointing and I guess not surprising that these articles come when they do," Davis says. "When articles show up that are just flat false there's got to be a reason for that."

    Davis, who has previously accused Boeing of spreading lies about the F-35, could not provide a specific agenda motivating the programme's critics, but speculated "there's money involved and companies involved."

    However, Australian MP David Jensen, an outspoken JSF critic widely quoted in the recent articles, has offered a sharp rebuttal to Davis. "Quite frankly that's baloney," says Jensen, who previously worked as a naval analyst within Australia's Ministry of Defence. "My point is that once the F-35 is detected the thing basically will just have to accept the conditions of the conflict."

    Jensen advocates scrapping the F-35A and Boeing F/A-18E/F. He would prefer that Australia, increasingly flanked by Sukhoi Su-27-equipped nations, maintain General Dynamics F-111s and seek US export approval to buy Lockheed F-22s.
    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tent-f-35.html

    @XAV.. That pretty much sums up the fiasco RAND accomplished this past week...

  13. #13
    Senile Member-Yeah! After 5 years tobigforyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,451

    Default


  14. #14
    Member Kongjun33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    台灣 Taiwan ROC
    Posts
    634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Surprise, surprise. Just another attempt by the F-35 lovers to support a bad airplane because they won't realize its **** compared to the F-22.

    j/k

    But as far as the "amazing jet" part is concerned, we will see when it is flying for real
    I second that. After lot of hurdles the JSF program encountered these last months, I would call the F-35 : the Plucked bird!

  15. #15
    How's that Hopey Changey thing workin'? C.Puffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Smooth as a porcupine.
    Posts
    24,797

    Default

    Don't feed the trolls.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •