Spanish judge launches probe into atrocities during 1936-39 civil war

[Fade]

Spanish judge launches probe into atrocities during 1936-39 civil war
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MADRID, Spain - A Spanish judge is launching a formal criminal investigation into atrocities committed during the Spanish Civil War and the country's ensuing right-wing dictatorship.

Judge Baltasar Garzon of the National Court says in a writ issued Thursday that he has jurisdiction to probe the execution or disappearance of tens of thousands of people during the 1936-39 civil war and under the subsequent rule of Gen. Francisco Franco.

Story continued....

[Pollo Pion]

It´s quite embarrasing that here in Spain we have a judge who ask for a death certificate from General Franco (anybody thinks he is still alive) and decide to prosecute people who has been dead for decades, wasting his time and the scarce assets that Justice has in Spain. This prima-donna has left international drug smugglers free because he didn´t have enough time to dictate a resolution to keep them on jail,because he had to make a lecture abroad. This judge is famous because all the prosecutions that he sostains usually ends with the supposed criminals freed, as a result of his faulty investigations. Well, he maybe will get the Nobel prize but I don´t think the cost is worth of it (free criminals, terrorists, drug smugglers).

[SoSo]

What about the innocent victims of the Republican Servicio de Investigacion Militar? Will there be an inquest to look into their fate as well?

[Knutsen]

What about the innocent victims of the Republican Servicio de Investigacion Militar? Will there be an inquest to look into their fate as well?

Fact is that these cases (and also other crimes like Paracuellos del Jarama) were judged, clarified and punished (btw, quite harder than they would be judged today) by Franco's courts. They had 40 years to mourn their dead, identify them and give them a decent burial.


The right to know the truth, find the bodies and know the name of the slaughterer is the least we can give to these people.

[SoSo]

Knutsen, you're right, and I'm sorry. The Spanish Civil War casualties who supported the Republican side also have a right to proper burial, and their families deserve closure.

[Pollo Pion]

It is true that crimes commited on the republican side were put on trial, but as an example the dead of Paracuellos are where they were assesinated, nobody then or now take them from the mass grave, but the point is not if the dead deserve a burial and a grave, of course they deserve it, no matter which side they supported. The point is if there are any reason to begin a prosecution against Franco, or general Mola, and so on. All are dead, maybe this judge wants to win the spanish civil war on the court, but seriously it´s a real shame that he spends his time on this. In Spain we have laws that secure the right to obtain your relative´s remains and a proper burial, and we don´t need a prima donna longing for the Nobel prize.

[Knutsen]

The point is if there are any reason to begin a prosecution against Franco, or general Mola, and so on

Well, the reason for this is recognition. As simple as that. It's saying to THOUSANDS of people : "look, these men were assasinated and the responsible for this is X".

People don't want revenge (that's the difference between victims of the dictatorship and those who support it ), people just want an official response to the attrocities committed to them. Wounds will never close if this country doesn't open the eyes to a SAD reality that took place here.

[LineDoggie]

Hitlers Dead, no one Prosecuted him. Does anyone not doubt his culpability?

Stalins Dead, no Prosecution, No One doubts his culpability


I say find these dead and give them all due Respect and Honors, but it's absurd to try the dead. if found guilty will his Generalissimo Franco's corpse do a stretch in Prison?

It smacks of Revisionism for PC

[Knutsen]

Hitlers Dead, no one Prosecuted him. Does anyone not doubt his culpability?

Stalins Dead, no Prosecution, No One doubts his culpability


I say find these dead and give them all due Respect and Honors, but it's absurd to try the dead. if found guilty will his Generalissimo Franco's corpse do a stretch in Prison?

It smacks of Revisionism for PC

Revisionism are the amnesty laws written in 1977 thanks to which nobody paid for their crimes (the republican criminals paid during Franco's years with no trace of guarantees). In Spain we have been pretending that nothing happened for 30 years. It's about damn time that we can speak loud, look at the eyes of the victims and say:

"yes, there was a genocide in this country, there were concentration camps, there were political prisoners and there were mass executions, not only during the war (36-39) but during the dictatorship itself (at least until 1951)"

What i'm wondering is, those people in Spain who are opposing this, what are they hiding? Are they ashamed of what their ancestors did?

[LineDoggie]

Revisionism are the amnesty laws written in 1977 thanks to which nobody paid for their crimes (the republican criminals paid during Franco's years with no trace of guarantees). In Spain we have been pretending that nothing happened for 30 years. It's about damn time that we can speak loud, look at the eyes of the victims and say:

"yes, there was a genocide in this country, there were concentration camps, there were political prisoners and there were mass executions, not only during the war (36-39) but during the dictatorship itself (at least until 1951)"

What i'm wondering is, those people in Spain who are opposing this, what are they hiding? Are they ashamed of what their ancestors did?

So i take it you've gotten a Shovel to dig up Franco's corpse so you can look it in the skulls eye sockets when the verdict comes in?


Maybe the people who oppose it object to this farce of trying the dead. How much will be spent on the Prosecution and how much on the Defence?

Will the defendants get their due rights under the law?

Totally absurd, and of course ANY who Oppose are hiding their crimes, eh?


Here: looks like you all might need this

[Knutsen]

So i take it you've gotten a Shovel to dig up Franco's corpse so you can look it in the skulls eye sockets when the verdict comes in?


Maybe the people who oppose it object to this farce of trying the dead. How much will be spent on the Prosecution and how much on the Defence?

Will the defendants get their due rights under the law?

Totally absurd, and of course ANY who Oppose are hiding their crimes, eh?


Here: looks like you all might need this

This Franco prosecution (agreeing with you that it is absurd) is one of the last measures taken. People are against it before the Franco thing, these people have always been against speaking about what happened, let alone finding the dead.
So yes, anyone opposing this measure is:
a) hiding something they did
b) ashamed of their ancestors
c) fascists
d) Immature idiots (like your post, incapable of keeping a mature conversation on a really touching topic for thousands of people.

[Pollo Pion]

I can´t help laugh when you talk about genocide. Which genocide? The killing of catholic priests, nuns, fidels, because they were catholic? Remember Santiago Carrillo, overall responsible of Paracuellos killings, he is alive, and he hasn´t been put on trial by his acts. Why? Because of this horrible 1977 amnesty law that you are talking about, dude. My one of my grandfather fought with the nationalist side, and some other relatives, and I´m not ashamed by their commitment with their ideals. A WAR, and Civil Wars especially, is horrible and surrounded by horrors, and in this war both sides, both, were resolved to annihilate the other side. If red side had won the war, the mass graves, the repression would be placed in the nationalists. But it would be great because Spain would be invaded by Nazi Germany during WWII and anglo american would liberate us and we wouldn´t have to listen nonsense about judging Franco after 30 years dead, and so on.
Give all the dead a proper burial, and stop doing absurd political stands that only a very few people care about.
Ahhh maybe we have to prepare the prosecution of Napoleon Bonaparte for the dead during french invasion, and more over we must prosecute Scipio for the responsability in the Roman invasion during Punic Wars. And I´m sure all are interested in judging the arabs who directed the troops that in 711ac invaded Spain, so: Tarik, Muza get ready, we are going to Heaven to take you from your 72 virgins and put both of you in prison, judge Garzon knows no fear!!!!!
La Ley de Memoria Historica, ya establece la obligacion de las administraciones publicas de facilitar el levantamiento de las fosas y dar un adecuado enterramiento a los restos. Como siempre Garzon a la busqueda de la notoriedad. Y la ley de amnistia tambien protegio a los del bando republicano, lumbrera.

[tattooman]

X2 One of my grandfhaters was republican supporter, no soldier, and other was nationalist soldier.

[zad]

Same here, one of them send to a concentration camp after the war, pending of execution for three years because he was member of the PSOE, the other forced to fight on the nationalist side. Fortunately both made it to continue with their lives.

[Lazy Lob]

I wonder if Santiago Carrillo will have his collar felt. I doubt it.