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Thread: It ain't Easy being Green: Snow blankets London for Global Warming debate

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    Senior Member loganinkosovo's Avatar
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    Default It ain't Easy being Green: Snow blankets London for Global Warming debate

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10...e_change_bill/


    HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!


    Snow blankets London for Global Warming debate

    How Parliament passed the Climate Bill
    By Andrew OrlowskiGet more from this author
    Posted in Government, 29th October 2008 12:35 GMT
    Snow fell as the House of Commons debated Global Warming yesterday - the first October fall in the metropolis since 1922. The Mother of Parliaments was discussing the Mother of All Bills for the last time, in a marathon six hour session.
    In order to combat a projected two degree centigrade rise in global temperature, the Climate Change Bill pledges the UK to reduce its carbon dioxide emissions by 80 per cent by 2050. The bill was receiving a third reading, which means both the last chance for both democratic scrutiny and consent.
    The bill creates an enormous bureaucratic apparatus for monitoring and reporting, which was expanded at the last minute. Amendments by the Government threw emissions from shipping and aviation into the monitoring program, and also included a revision of the Companies Act (c. 46) "requiring the directors’ report of a company to contain such information as may be specified in the regulations about emissions of greenhouse gases from activities for which the company is responsible" by 2012.
    Recently the American media has begun to notice the odd incongruity of saturation media coverage here which insists that global warming is both man-made and urgent, and a British public which increasingly doubts either to be true. 60 per cent of the British population now doubt the influence of humans on climate change, and more people than not think Global Warming won't be as bad "as people say".
    Both figures are higher than a year ago - and the poll was taken before the non-summer of 2008, and the (latest) credit crisis.
    Yet anyone looking for elected representatives to articulate these concerns will have been disappointed. Instead, representatives had a higher purpose - demonstrating their virtue. And for the first 90 minutes of the marathon debate, the new nobility outdid each other with calls for tougher pledges, or stricter monitoring. Gestures are easy, so no wonder MPs like making them so much.
    It was all deeply sanctimonious, but no one pointed out that Europe's appetite for setting targets that hurt the economy has evaporated in recent weeks - so it's a gesture few countries will feel compelled to imitate.
    The US Senate has Senator James Inhofe, but in the Commons, there wasn't an out-and-out sceptic to be found. It was 90 minutes before anyone broke the liturgy of virtue. When Peter Lilley, in amazement, asked why there hadn't been a cost/benefit analysis made of such a major change in policy, he was told to shut up by the Deputy Speaker.
    (And even Lilley - one of only five out of 653 MPs to vote against the Climate Bill in its second reading - felt it necessary to pledge his allegiance to the Precautionary Principle.)
    It fell to a paid-up member of Greenpeace, the Labour MP Rob Marris, to point out the Bill was a piece of political showboating that would fail. While professing himself a believer in the theory that human activity is primarily the cause of global warming, he left plenty of room for doubt - far more than most members. The legislation was doomed, Marris said.
    MP Rob Marris

    Marris had previously supported the 60 per cent target but thought that 80 per cent, once it included shipping and aviation, wouldn't work. We could have a higher target, or include shipping and aviation, but not both.
    He compared it to asking someone to run 100m in 14 seconds - which they might consider something to train for. Asking someone to run it in ten seconds just meant people would dismiss the target.
    "The public will ask 'why should we bother doing anything at all?'"
    Out of bounds

    The closest thing to a British Inhofe is Ulsterman Sammy Wilson, Democratic Unionist Party, who'd wanted a "reasoned debate" on global warming, rather than bullying, and recently called environmentalism a "hysterical psuedo-religion". Wilson described the Climate Bill as a disaster, but even colleagues who disagree with his views of environmentalism are wary of the latest amendments.
    The Irish Republic is likely to reap big economic gains if it doesn't penalise its own transport sector as fiercely as the UK pledges to penalise its own in the bill. Most Ulster MPs were keenly aware of the costs, and how quickly the ports and airports could close, when a cheaper alternative lies a few miles away over the border.
    Tory barrister Christopher Chope professed himself baffled by the logic of including aviation and shipping. If transportation was made more expensive, how could there be more trade?
    "As we destroy industry we'll be more dependent on shipping and aviation for our imports!" he said.
    "When the history books come to be written people will ask why were the only five MPs... who voted against this ludicrous bill," he said. It would tie Britain up in knots for years, all for a futile gesture, Chope thought.
    However, Tim Yeo, the perma-suntanned Tory backbencher who wants us to carry carbon rationing cards, said it would "improve Britain's competitiveness". He didn't say how.


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    You do of course realise that it's fairly likely that the Uk would see an overall decrease in temperature in response to a global warming, due to cold water pushing down on the gulf stream. Just look at other places on the same latitude for comparison.

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    Senior Member loganinkosovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom View Post
    You do of course realise that it's fairly likely that the Uk would see an overall decrease in temperature in response to a global warming, due to cold water pushing down on the gulf stream. Just look at other places on the same latitude for comparison.
    Very Convenient Theory.

    Of course going into another Ice Age would account for it too.

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    Senior Member NicNZ's Avatar
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    Funny though this event is, it doesnt mean anything in the scheme of things. Daily, weekly, seasonal, and even yearly temperatures bounce around, but if they are plotted over the past couple of hundred years, they show an upward trend in average temperature.

    In fact, there doesnt seem to be any doubt that the planet is, on average, getting warmer, but that in itself is nothing remarkable; global temperatures have gone through cyclical fluctuations (ie. warm and cold periods) for millions of years. The question is whether this recent upward trend has been caused by human activity, and in particular, whether recent carbon emissions are accelerating the natural warming trend.

    On that question, I remain sceptical, since scientific investigations suggest that there have been periods of much higher atmospheric carbon than at present, with no corresponding increase in global temperature. Thus, it would seem that atmospheric carbon levels are not linked to global temperature and carbon emissions do not accelerate global warming.

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    Defender of the Man Code muttbutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loganinkosovo View Post
    Very Convenient Theory.

    Of course going into another Ice Age would account for it too.
    World heat's up, fresh water unlocked for the ice cap's changes the salinity of the ocean causing a disruption of the GS which keep's the UK and Ireland warmer then they would be, if it was not there....neat theory indeed.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by loganinkosovo View Post
    Very Convenient Theory.

    Of course going into another Ice Age would account for it too.
    Sorry to spoil your thread, but the 'convenient theory' has been around for quite a while so it's not like I just invented it. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

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    Senior Member Alpheus's Avatar
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    I wonder if Al Gore was there. Cold weather has a habit of showing up when he opens his mouth.

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    Senior Member szr's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    It's been pretty damn unseasonably cool (some would say downright cold) here in the northeast United States, as well. They've already gotten snow upstate. If this is global warming then me and my snowboard are all for it.

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    Federov Avtomat, FTW!
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    ...which is why they normally call it climate change rather than global warming, because for some areas it might mean more rainfall and cooler temperatures and for others less rainfall and warmer temperatures.

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    Falcons FTW Kilgor's Avatar
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    So, if the stock market rallies that means there is no credit crisis ?

    Likewise, one cold winter does not mean there is no global warming problem.

    Its called a trend.

    there are still up and down swings, but overall the movement is up in the long run.

    What I dont understand it how people cannot understand this.

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    Hammer Time T3ngu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilgor View Post
    so, if the stock market rallies that means there is no credit crisis ?

    Likewise, one cold winter does not mean there is no global warming problem.

    Its called a trend.

    There are still up and down swings, but overall the movement is up in the long run.

    What i dont understand it how people cannot understand this.
    x2

    .............................................

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    Senior Member szr's Avatar
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    I'm liking the climate change we've gotten around here, so far. This summer was pretty reasonable--not the usual brutal steam bath. Fingers crossed for good snow totals on the slopes.

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    Senior Member Chulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    I wonder if Al Gore was there. Cold weather has a habit of showing up when he opens his mouth.
    No, its just hot air that comes out

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    Senior Member Redguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgor View Post
    So, if the stock market rallies that means there is no credit crisis ?

    Likewise, one cold winter does not mean there is no global warming problem.

    Its called a trend.

    there are still up and down swings, but overall the movement is up in the long run.

    What I dont understand it how people cannot understand this.
    Exactly. But what if these global warming changes we're seeing are just trends in the big picture. Looking back on weather time lines makes me think this whole thing is way blown out of proportion, and its just nature taking its course, not humans killing the environment single handedly.

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    Senior Member Chulo's Avatar
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    any one read michael crichton's state of fear ?

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