Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by Bob Sapp
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The first two also have Irbis-E though....testing air performance without the avionics to add weight and center of gravity changes would be senseless, unless the airframe was very experimental and new, something that cannot be said of the Su-35BM.
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I have seen testing where X systems was being intergrated and Y radar was not cleared for compatability. To get around it, a ballast was made to replace the radar in exact weight whilst X was being tested.
After X had its capability testing on the ground with Y radar, the concrete ballast was removed and the radar installed again.
Certainly true, but the first Su-35Bm airframe clearly showed its Irbis at the first MAKS appearance it made...we got to see the beauty that is both electronic and mechanical steering.
Upgrading such an airframe is quite complex, normally I wouldn't expect that early prototypes get upgraded after they have completed their scheduled tasks.
Maybe they will upgrade one of the first two now that the third is lost.
Cant tell for sure though. It has been relatively quiet around the whole Su35 project after the unfortunate accident of Nr.3.
Since you guys are on the subject of Su-35S, can you clear up one thing for me? Which engines will the serial production version be flying?
http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/?p=537DATELINE: MOSCOW Oct 9
The Ufa-based engine-building production company (UMPO) has signed a contract with the Komsomolsk-on- Amur Aircraft Production Plant for the supply of AL-41F-1S (117S) engines for the newest Sukhoi Su-35S multi-role fighter aircraft.
“These engines are designed for Su-35S aircraft supplied to the Russian Air Force. UMPO will manufacture 96 117S engines until 2015, the first shipment is due in 2010,” UMPO said on Friday.
This is the first time that the Russian Air Force will receive vectored-thrust engines installed at Su-35S aircraft, the statement said. Until recently, only export versions had been fitted with vectorable jet nozzles that give this capability.
AL-41F-1S (117S) is a 4++ generation two-shaft turbofan engine. It is being designed by UMPO and NPO Saturn for Sukhoi Design Bureau. AL- 41F-1S (117S) is a thoroughly upgraded version of the AL-31F engine. Its 2,000-kilogram thrust exceeds the basic engine characteristics.
UMPO is the biggest aircraft engine maker in Russia. The company specializes in production, post-sale service and maintenance for turbofan engines, as well as manufactures and repairs helicopter parts.
UMPO is part of the United Engine Building Corporation, a subsidiary of OPK Oboronprom.
This article here suggests that it would be the 117S. However, I've read elsewhere that 117S is too heavy for all T-10 derivative airframes, so the best they can go with is an upgrade of AL-31. Is this true?
The issue is marginally relevant to PAK-FA, since that one is supposed to fly with some AL-41 mod as well. Also, did that new engine test failure that bonked the 3rd Su-35BM airframe have something to do with this engine switcheroo?
Fresh news on Su-35
«on December, 31 main designer, the director of the program of Su-35 in KB «Sukhoi» Igor Demin declared «INTERFAKS-AVN», that in 2010 amount of the Su-35 fighters taking part in the state tests will be up to six machines.
«Presently two fighters participate in tests, four additional airplanes will be involved in the fourth quarter of 2010», he declared.
To artjomh: The 117S was designed specially for SU-35BM airframe (which has modified inlets and engine bays) but not for old T-10 airframes. 117S is not a mod of AL-41 its a wider model of Al-31F.
PS: there was a guy on paralay forums that said that MMPO "Salut" have a new AL-31F-M2 in works which is lighter than M1 but should have around 1 ton more power (it should be ready in couple of years).
PPS:They were doing R&Ds for AL-31F-M3 3-rd modernisation stage before, but now with "crisis" I'm guessig they will stop on M2. Besides they should be battling for the piece of the pie in the development of the 5-th gen engine family.
Last edited by Andy_UA; 01-04-2010 at 06:02 PM.
That's more like an artists impression... What exactly is that thing at the 250 mark? A UFO? I'll take numbers over random scetches.
India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi January 05, 2010, 0:38 IST
Late last year, a defence ministry delegation to Sukhoi’s flagship aircraft facility in Siberia became the first Indians to set eyes upon the next-generation fighter that is slated to form the backbone of the future Indian Air Force (IAF). In that first meeting, carefully choreographed by Sukhoi, the new fighter, standing on the tarmac waved a welcome to the Indians, moving all its control fins simultaneously.
The effect, recounts one member of that delegation, was electric. The senior IAF officer there walked silently up to the aircraft and touched it almost incredulously. This was the Sukhoi T-50, the first technology demonstrator of what India terms the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Senior defence ministry sources tell Business Standard that — after five years of haggling over the FGFA’s form, capabilities and work-share — a detailed contract on joint development is just around the corner.
The contract, which Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will sign with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), will commit to building 250 fighters for the IAF and an equal number for Russia. The option for further orders will be kept open. HAL and UAC will be equal partners in a joint venture company, much like the Brahmos JV, that will develop and manufacture the FGFA.
The cost of developing the FGFA, which would be shared between both countries, will be $8-10 billion (Rs 37,000-45,000 crore). Over and above that, say IAF and defence ministry sources, each FGFA will cost Rs 400-500 crore.
Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”
[That means that while a Su-30MKI would be as visible to enemy radar as a metal object 5 metres X 4 metres in dimension, the FGFA’s radar signature would be just 1/40th of that.]
A key strength of the 30-35 tonne FGFA would be data fusion; the myriad inputs from the fighter’s infrared, radar, and visual sensors would be electronically combined and fed to the pilots in easy-to-read form.
The FGFA partnership was conceived a decade ago, in 2000, when Sukhoi’s celebrated chief, Mikhail Pogosyan, invited a visiting Indian Air Force officer out to dinner in Moscow. Boris Yeltsin’s disastrous presidency had just ended, and Russia’s near bankruptcy was reflected in the run-down condition of a once-famous restaurant. But, as the IAF officer recounts, the vodka was flowing and Pogosyan was in his element, a string of jokes translated by a female interpreter.
Late that evening Pogosyan turned serious, switching the conversation to a secret project that, officially, did not even exist. Sukhoi, he confided to the IAF officer, had completed the design of a fifth generation fighter, as advanced as America’s F-22 Raptor, which is still the world’s foremost fighter. Russia’s economy was in tatters, but Sukhoi would develop its new, high-tech fighter if India partnered Russia, sharing the costs of developing the fighter at Sukhoi’s plant, Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Organisation (KnAAPO).
Reaching out to India was logical for Russia. During the 1990s — when thousands of Russian military design bureaus starved for funds, and a bankrupt Moscow cancelled 1,149 R&D projects — India’s defence purchases had kept Russia’s defence industry alive, bankrolling the development of the Sukhoi-30 fighter; the Talwar-class stealth frigates; the Uran and Klub ship-borne missiles; and the MiG-21 upgrade.
But co-developing a fifth generation fighter is a different ball game, financially and technologically, and India’s MoD hesitated to sign up. Meanwhile enriched by hydrocarbon revenues, Moscow gave Sukhoi the green light to develop the FGFA, which Russia terms the PAK-FA, the acronym for Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsy (literally Prospective Aircraft Complex of Frontline Aviation).
Today, Russia is five years into the development of the FGFA. In November 2007, India and Russia signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement on co-developing the fighter, but it has taken two more years to agree upon common specifications, work shares in development, and in resolving issues like Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).
The prototype that Sukhoi has built is tailored to Russian Air Force requirements. But the IAF has different specifications and the JV will cater for both air forces, producing two different, but closely related, aircraft. For example, Russia wants a single-seat fighter; the IAF, happy with the Su-30MKI, insists upon a twin-seat fighter with one pilot flying and the other handling the sensors, networks and weaponry.
Negotiations have resolved even this fundamental conflict. India has agreed to buy a mix of about 50 single-seat and 200 twin-seat aircraft. Russia, in turn, will consider buying more twin-seat aircraft to use as trainers. But even as both countries narrow their differences, fresh challenges lie ahead: preparing India’s nascent aerospace industry for the high-tech job of developing and manufacturing a fifth-generation fighter.
(This is the first of a two-part series on the IAF’s fifth-generation fighter)
(Part II: FGFA negotiating hardball: Russia says India brings little to the table)
http://wap.business-standard.com/sto...&autono=381718
Any idea about NATO nickname for PAK FA? SU-27 - Flanker, T-50 - ???
fiction, fiasco, flabby?
You are simply in denial. If you want to believe that a Su35 can shoot down enemy aircraft beyond 400km then you may go ahead. No point in arguing about such an delusional figure.
Interesting....
Either Firefox or F*uckerAny idea about NATO nickname for PAK FA? SU-27 - Flanker, T-50 - ???
fiction, fiasco, flabby?
I provided sufficent evidence to support my claims. You cite a drawing that doesnt even list measurement units! And BTW what exactly is there at about 250 line?
You cited exactly nothing, there is just the official brochure I posted.
The brochure is quite clear when it comes to attack ranges. The scale ends at around 250km with a B-52 and some sort of silo installation to represent huge ground targets.
But as I said, if you want to believe that a SU can attack enemy airplanes over more than 400 km than go ahead.
Su-30MKI has a RCS of 20 m2? Very dubious numbers.
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