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Thread: Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA

  1. #6481

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    Russia Must Build Two Variants of 5G Fighter - Rogozin | Defense | RIA Novosti


    Russian aircraft manufacturers must develop at least two competitive prototypes of a fifth-generation fighter jet, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.


    “Two variants of the future fighter jet must be developed to encourage competition,” Rogozin said at a meeting with Russian lawmakers.


    According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the future fighter must possess all technical characteristics of a fifth-generation fighter, including elements of stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, highly-integrated avionics, electronics and fire-control systems.


    The existing T-50 prototype, developed under the program PAK FA (Future Aviation System for Tactical Air Force) at the Sukhoi aircraft design bureau, made its maiden flight in Russia’s Far East in January 2010 and made its first public appearance at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow on August 17, 2011.


    There are currently three fifth-generation T-50 fighters in tests, and a total number of 14 aircraft is planned for test flights by 2015.


    The T-50 is expected to enter service in 2016 and gradually replace MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker fighter jets in the Russian Air Force.

  2. #6482

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    So, i've been following the Su-T50's development for quite some time now and still, i am left with some questions. Perhaps this is also a good time to bump this thread alive again.

    Questions:

    1:



    ^ Those boxes with what seems to me camera's, are part of the 101 KS family. Picture says they are called; "Stantsir 101 KS-U" Or just KS-U.

    Can anyone enlighten me what they exactly are? Are they a Russian equivelant of DAS or are they just fancy optical MAW's?

    2:



    ^ That is the KS-B. The "OLS-50". Is there any info available that might hint at how it might perform?

    3: What is the datalink and its device called? US/NATO has Link-16, what has Russia?
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  3. #6483
    Senior Member metberkut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTX-Horus View Post
    1:

    ^ Those boxes with what seems to me camera's, are part of the 101 KS family. Picture says they are called; "Stantsir 101 KS-U" Or just KS-U.

    Can anyone enlighten me what they exactly are? Are they a Russian equivelant of DAS or are they just fancy optical MAW's?
    Not much is known so far, but they are supposed to give situation "picture" of both air and ground to the pilot.

    Quote Originally Posted by XTX-Horus View Post
    2:


    ^ That is the KS-B. The "OLS-50". Is there any info available that might hint at how it might perform?

    3: What is the datalink and its device called? US/NATO has Link-16, what has Russia?
    It is KS-V. "B" = V in Slavic. Again, not much information is known so far. I guess the best one can do is to compare with OLS for Su-35S. No idea on what the datalink will be called. Not much to go on, i know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTX-Horus View Post
    So, i've been following the Su-T50's development for quite some time now and still, i am left with some questions.
    I had worked on UOMZ, the factory that makes this system, seen it real sample, talked to the people who supply it to Sukhoi, and the only things I now is this:


    So don't expect much of the answers. UOMZ still classifies Su-27 derivatives subsystems, and you want to know something about next gen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Not much is known so far, but they are supposed to give situation "picture" of both air and ground to the pilot.
    Sounds like it does more then just being an optical MAWS then.

    It is KS-V. "B" = V in Slavic.
    I dun goofed up with that.

    Again, not much information is known so far. I guess the best one can do is to compare with OLS for Su-35S. No idea on what the datalink will be called. Not much to go on, i know.
    I guess i can just use the OLS-35M specs and add 25 to 40% better specs then. Bummer about no one knowing the name of the datalink that the Su-T50 will use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    I had worked on UOMZ, the factory that makes this system, seen it real sample, talked to the people who supply it to Sukhoi, and the only things I now is this:
    So don't expect much of the answers. UOMZ still classifies Su-27 derivatives subsystems, and you want to know something about next gen.
    I should've seen that one comming. Thanks anyways the both of you.

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    Senior Member metberkut's Avatar
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    The most secretive part by faaaar is weapons for PAK FA. However, electronic systems comes close second. It is however surprising how open they have been regarding radar information. I can't imagine they were that open with AN/APG-77 way back in early 90's.

    Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?

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    Yes the weapons are the most secret,but not only.the second stage engine is shrunk in mistery,we dont know even how the nozzles would look like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoyan.1991 View Post
    Yes the weapons are the most secret,but not only.the second stage engine is shrunk in mistery,we dont know even how the nozzles would look like.
    Sigh. They are not even developed yet. No brainer kinda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    The most secretive part by faaaar is weapons for PAK FA. However, electronic systems comes close second. It is however surprising how open they have been regarding radar information. I can't imagine they were that open with AN/APG-77 way back in early 90's.

    Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?
    So whose OLs does the Su-35S use, then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    So whose OLs does the Su-35S use, then?

    Original one was by UOMZ, this one:

    http://www.uomz.ru/index.php?page=products&pid=100175

    Later as seen on 902 (later) and serial ones:

    http://www.npk-spp.ru/deyatelnost/av...66-ols-35.html

    Su-35S page on KnAAPO was changed a bit back with pic of the new OLS:

    http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/products/military/su-35.wbp

    Notice size difference between them. UOMZ was showed on this year MAKS, but i can't recall seeing the "real" one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Sigh. They are not even developed yet. No brainer kinda.
    the same as weapons which are not yet ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?
    Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
    UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
    Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
    UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
    Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.
    Thank you for the info, all very interesting! I have heard there was also quality problems with UOMZ stuff, or is that political bs?

    But i didn't fully understood you, is 13SM-1 still on MiG-35 prototype, or is that also changed? I did notice that T-50-3 had a different OLS, atleast from external point of view. There is also a new bump on the underside of the nose (in front of front wheelbay).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.
    thanks for info.Being an UOMZ guy i would aks u if the final IRST of PAK FA will be modified like the one used in f-35 (angular one ) or rounded as being used now (actually round is the worst shape for stealth) thanks

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    If I understand correctly about OLS-35 system for Su-35, it is not only IRST for air targets, but could be also used for day / night ground attacks. So Su-35 doesn't need additional pod for ground attacks like Democles pod and could do the job just with OLS-35?

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