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Thread: Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA

  1. #6466
    Member Akril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?
    Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
    UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
    Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.

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    Senior Member metberkut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
    UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
    Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.
    Thank you for the info, all very interesting! I have heard there was also quality problems with UOMZ stuff, or is that political bs?

    But i didn't fully understood you, is 13SM-1 still on MiG-35 prototype, or is that also changed? I did notice that T-50-3 had a different OLS, atleast from external point of view. There is also a new bump on the underside of the nose (in front of front wheelbay).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post

    As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.
    thanks for info.Being an UOMZ guy i would aks u if the final IRST of PAK FA will be modified like the one used in f-35 (angular one ) or rounded as being used now (actually round is the worst shape for stealth) thanks

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    If I understand correctly about OLS-35 system for Su-35, it is not only IRST for air targets, but could be also used for day / night ground attacks. So Su-35 doesn't need additional pod for ground attacks like Democles pod and could do the job just with OLS-35?

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Thank you for the info, all very interesting! I have heard there was also quality problems with UOMZ stuff, or is that political bs?
    Civilian sector is troubled for sure. Can't comment for military part, I simply don't know, but UOMZ put priorities here.
    If you mean the story with GOES-451, that is BS for 75% if you know what i mean. The system is quite capable and extend existed antitank rockets range, heavy but the factory got new specification requirements for minimized version with the same characteristics for naval Ka-52.

    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    But i didn't fully understood you, is 13SM-1 still on MiG-35 prototype, or is that also changed? I did notice that T-50-3 had a different OLS, atleast from external point of view. There is also a new bump on the underside of the nose (in front of front wheelbay).
    Regards Mig-35, MOD haven't yet decided. UOMZ makes it 100 percent clear when their system is chosen, for 13SM-1 it is "could be" status.

    Regards T-50-3 it isn't new, but unshown module that have been there from early stages of development.
    It's called 101KS-P and described as "optical-electronic sub-system of informational support of low altitude flight and landing" (оптико-электронная подсистема информационного обеспечения маловысотного полёта и посадки).

    And yes. Due to some circumstance, T-50-3 got second version of OLS, while the one from MAKS will be installed on T-50-4 (that supposed to be back-versa) or stays in KnAAPO storage if UOMZ assembles few more v.2.
    Last edited by Akril; 02-28-2012 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoyan.1991 View Post
    thanks for info.Being an UOMZ guy i would aks u if the final IRST of PAK FA will be modified like the one used in f-35 (angular one ) or rounded as being used now (actually round is the worst shape for stealth) thanks
    I don't know what final shape would be. I'm not engineer, so I haven't been supposed to know a jack about R&D works, yet alone in such specific direction as PAK FA. The round shape is close to final as I understood and the look of the system shouldn't face much changes. However since KS-U module evolved so much (see the pictures) you can expect some changes.


    Quote Originally Posted by medo View Post
    If I understand correctly about OLS-35 system for Su-35, it is not only IRST for air targets, but could be also used for day / night ground attacks. So Su-35 doesn't need additional podfor ground attacks like Democles pod and could do the job just with OLS-35?
    No. It's IRST only. For ground targeting you need Democles-like pod. It's called Sapsan from UOMZ, comparable pod from SPP (their stuff were chosen for Su-35) and 101KS-N from PAK FA program. But here again, MOD put both Russian pods on hold and purchased some Israeli stuff, and they quite unhappy with KS-N being an external module.
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    http://www.npk-spp.ru/deyatelnost/av...66-ols-35.html


    In the link, which was posted above, is a claim, that OLS-35 could search, lock and track air, land and sea targets day and night in visual and IR specter and that it have laser designator for land and sea targets. Maybe Su-35 only need targeting pod for targets, which are under the plane and IRST could no longer see them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    No. It's IRST only. For ground targeting you need Democles-like pod. It's called Sapsan from UOMZ, comparable pod from SPP (their stuff were chosen for Su-35) and 101KS-N from PAK FA program. But here again, MOD put both Russian pods on hold and purchased some Israeli stuff, and they quite unhappy with KS-N being an external module.
    Thats pretty f'n stupid of MoD. Are they gonna buy the Israeli pod in protest of KS-N pod?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    Thats pretty f'n stupid of MoD. Are they gonna buy the Israeli pod in protest of KS-N pod?
    they are only buying the best in the class

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    Quote Originally Posted by medo View Post
    In the link, which was posted above, is a claim, that OLS-35 could search, lock and track air, land and sea targets day and night in visual and IR specter and that it have laser designator for land and sea targets. Maybe Su-35 only need targeting pod for targets, which are under the plane and IRST could no longer see them.
    Maybe, but they for sure have pod system for ground targeting as an integral part of OLS-35 family and without it Su-35 are unable for full assault mod. Besides, in the link above they showed only IRST and not full family.
    Here is some sloppy photos of SPP from MAKS I took. You can see the description only for Mig-29, but this is the same system (and the only one they have).


    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    Thats pretty f'n stupid of MoD. Are they gonna buy the Israeli pod in protest of KS-N pod?
    If Israelis would have a pods for 5 gen stealth aircraft, I'm sure MOD would buy them instead of throwing money in R&D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abhishek-nayak View Post
    they are only buying the best in the class
    If you think that performance is the sole decisive factor you completely wrong. A lot of politics and personal issues is involved here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    But here again, MOD put both Russian pods on hold and purchased some Israeli stuff, and they quite unhappy with KS-N being an external module.
    And very understandably so.

    Again, thanks for posting Akril, makes the overall picture a bit clearer. And KS-P is news to me... I thought the undernose thingy was part of U system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    And very understandably so.
    You can't fit everything in that airframe.
    It ether air domination in stealth mode, and once PAK FA clear a skies, it returns to base and gain as much of external payload as it can (this is intended right now), or you wait another 5-10 years 'till Russian industries catch up with miniaturization.

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    Senior Member metberkut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akril View Post
    You can't fit everything in that airframe.
    It ether air domination in stealth mode, and once PAK FA clear a skies, it returns to base and gain as much of external payload as it can (this is intended right now), or you wait another 5-10 years 'till Russian industries catch up with miniaturization.
    Yeah, that is true, but i get MOD thinking as well.

    However, once one clears the sky, PAK FA will probably have all kinds of **** outside the frame, F-35 style. A bit off topic, but do you know whatever happened to OLS-K for MiG-35?

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    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    Yeah, that is true, but i get MOD thinking as well.
    *self-censored whining about wonderwaffles and zero investment in R&D*

    Quote Originally Posted by metberkut View Post
    do you know whatever happened to OLS-K for MiG-35?
    Never heard about it during my work time on UOMZ. Thats the SPP devise after all.

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