Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA

[XTX-Horus]

Not much is known so far, but they are supposed to give situation "picture" of both air and ground to the pilot.

Sounds like it does more then just being an optical MAWS then.

It is KS-V. "B" = V in Slavic.

I dun goofed up with that.

Again, not much information is known so far. I guess the best one can do is to compare with OLS for Su-35S. No idea on what the datalink will be called. Not much to go on, i know.

I guess i can just use the OLS-35M specs and add 25 to 40% better specs then. Bummer about no one knowing the name of the datalink that the Su-T50 will use.

I had worked on UOMZ, the factory that makes this system, seen it real sample, talked to the people who supply it to Sukhoi, and the only things I now is this:
So don't expect much of the answers. UOMZ still classifies Su-27 derivatives subsystems, and you want to know something about next gen.

I should've seen that one comming. Thanks anyways the both of you.

[metberkut]

The most secretive part by faaaar is weapons for PAK FA. However, electronic systems comes close second. It is however surprising how open they have been regarding radar information. I can't imagine they were that open with AN/APG-77 way back in early 90's.

Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?

[mikoyan.1991]

Yes the weapons are the most secret,but not only.the second stage engine is shrunk in mistery,we dont know even how the nozzles would look like.

[metberkut]

Yes the weapons are the most secret,but not only.the second stage engine is shrunk in mistery,we dont know even how the nozzles would look like.

Sigh. They are not even developed yet. No brainer kinda.

[Hyde]

The most secretive part by faaaar is weapons for PAK FA. However, electronic systems comes close second. It is however surprising how open they have been regarding radar information. I can't imagine they were that open with AN/APG-77 way back in early 90's.

Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?

So whose OLs does the Su-35S use, then?

[metberkut]

So whose OLs does the Su-35S use, then?

Original one was by UOMZ, this one:

http://www.uomz.ru/index.php?page=products&pid=100175

Later as seen on 902 (later) and serial ones:

http://www.npk-spp.ru/deyatelnost/av...66-ols-35.html

Su-35S page on KnAAPO was changed a bit back with pic of the new OLS:

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/products/military/su-35.wbp

Notice size difference between them. UOMZ was showed on this year MAKS, but i can't recall seeing the "real" one.

[mikoyan.1991]

Sigh. They are not even developed yet. No brainer kinda.

the same as weapons which are not yet ready

[Akril]

Btw, UOMZ kinda screwed up their systems on MiG-35 and Su-35S, and they were kicked from the later. Not sure if OLS is still UOMZ one on MiG-35, but lots of original intended stuff for MiG-35 is missing. Maybe Akril can fill us up on that?

Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.

[metberkut]

Well, that was political thing. A guys from MOD got some personal issue with director of UOMZ, and they switched to the other firm, smaller but able to deliver system on favorable conditions. That was sort of demonstrative act to buff of monopolist.
UOMZ still tries to push their OLS-35 for somebody, as an upgrade or optional system for foreign purchasers of Su-27 famaly. And, ofcourse, the picture from UOMZ site is the early mock up.
Same story with 13SM-1, the system for Mig-35.

As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.

Thank you for the info, all very interesting! I have heard there was also quality problems with UOMZ stuff, or is that political bs?

But i didn't fully understood you, is 13SM-1 still on MiG-35 prototype, or is that also changed? I did notice that T-50-3 had a different OLS, atleast from external point of view. There is also a new bump on the underside of the nose (in front of front wheelbay).

[mikoyan.1991]

As for the OLS for T-50, the one from MAKS is the actual size, and almost two times smaller, than previous UOMZ systems (I remember deputy director for R&D insisted that I need to put "shadow" of OLS-30 aka 36Sh-01 on the picture from my previous post for the sake of scaling) . Although third PAK FA prototype got slightly different version. Yes there is the two of them (at least was in June 2011), difference in number of modules.

thanks for info.Being an UOMZ guy i would aks u if the final IRST of PAK FA will be modified like the one used in f-35 (angular one ) or rounded as being used now (actually round is the worst shape for stealth) thanks

[medo]

If I understand correctly about OLS-35 system for Su-35, it is not only IRST for air targets, but could be also used for day / night ground attacks. So Su-35 doesn't need additional pod for ground attacks like Democles pod and could do the job just with OLS-35?

[Akril]

Thank you for the info, all very interesting! I have heard there was also quality problems with UOMZ stuff, or is that political bs?

Civilian sector is troubled for sure. Can't comment for military part, I simply don't know, but UOMZ put priorities here.
If you mean the story with GOES-451, that is BS for 75% if you know what i mean. The system is quite capable and extend existed antitank rockets range, heavy but the factory got new specification requirements for minimized version with the same characteristics for naval Ka-52.

But i didn't fully understood you, is 13SM-1 still on MiG-35 prototype, or is that also changed? I did notice that T-50-3 had a different OLS, atleast from external point of view. There is also a new bump on the underside of the nose (in front of front wheelbay).

Regards Mig-35, MOD haven't yet decided. UOMZ makes it 100 percent clear when their system is chosen, for 13SM-1 it is "could be" status.

Regards T-50-3 it isn't new, but unshown module that have been there from early stages of development.
It's called 101KS-P and described as "optical-electronic sub-system of informational support of low altitude flight and landing" (оптико-электронная подсистема информационного обеспечения маловысотного полёта и посадки).

And yes. Due to some circumstance, T-50-3 got second version of OLS, while the one from MAKS will be installed on T-50-4 (that supposed to be back-versa) or stays in KnAAPO storage if UOMZ assembles few more v.2.

[Akril]

thanks for info.Being an UOMZ guy i would aks u if the final IRST of PAK FA will be modified like the one used in f-35 (angular one ) or rounded as being used now (actually round is the worst shape for stealth) thanks

I don't know what final shape would be. I'm not engineer, so I haven't been supposed to know a jack about R&D works, yet alone in such specific direction as PAK FA. The round shape is close to final as I understood and the look of the system shouldn't face much changes. However since KS-U module evolved so much (see the pictures) you can expect some changes.

If I understand correctly about OLS-35 system for Su-35, it is not only IRST for air targets, but could be also used for day / night ground attacks. So Su-35 doesn't need additional podfor ground attacks like Democles pod and could do the job just with OLS-35?

No. It's IRST only. For ground targeting you need Democles-like pod. It's called Sapsan from UOMZ, comparable pod from SPP (their stuff were chosen for Su-35) and 101KS-N from PAK FA program. But here again, MOD put both Russian pods on hold and purchased some Israeli stuff, and they quite unhappy with KS-N being an external module.

[medo]

http://www.npk-spp.ru/deyatelnost/av...66-ols-35.html


In the link, which was posted above, is a claim, that OLS-35 could search, lock and track air, land and sea targets day and night in visual and IR specter and that it have laser designator for land and sea targets. Maybe Su-35 only need targeting pod for targets, which are under the plane and IRST could no longer see them.

[sepheronx]

No. It's IRST only. For ground targeting you need Democles-like pod. It's called Sapsan from UOMZ, comparable pod from SPP (their stuff were chosen for Su-35) and 101KS-N from PAK FA program. But here again, MOD put both Russian pods on hold and purchased some Israeli stuff, and they quite unhappy with KS-N being an external module.

Thats pretty f'n stupid of MoD. Are they gonna buy the Israeli pod in protest of KS-N pod?