British Armed Forces

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

the mk.48 i dont know the old 7.62 issue never really reared its head till we got stuck into herrick.the GPMG is an excellent piece of kit we still use them down at section level in para reg but i personnally think its a bit to heavy and unwielding for that role and could be SUPPLEMENTED not replaced by the mk.48 my two pence worth but you could argue all day over the pros and cons.

[walsallfc]

The GPMG is already an excellent bit of kit, I don't personally see the need for having two 7.62 machine guns.

if you had something as portable as the minimi in 7.62mm you could replace both and have a lighter weapon than the gimpy

[DeltaWhisky58]

Any info about these trials? As, for example, what they liked, what they didn't, and why ultimately preferred Minimi? Thanks in advance.

No, sorry - I'm not aware of any report being published as the whole thing was rushed through under UOR.

just imagine if the mod brought the m16 or c7 instead of the SA80

Why?

123456789

Ditto - Why x2 - pointless post.

did they ever consider a minimi in 7.62mm

AFAIK the 7.62x51mm Minimi wasn't available back then, plus the requirement was for a 5.56x45mm weapon, we already had the GPMG in 7.62x51mm.

[IDF_TANKER]

Negev did well. The real problem was political, as it was with Spike. The real choice was between a weapon system already in service and those that were not, or came with political fall-out. It would have meant buying arms directly from Israel had it been selected, and allegedly the DPA were told that wasnt happening which is why it never went to cold trials ( Negev had been designed to address the issues the IDF encountered with Minimi ) The MG43 would have meant running two different systems to provide the same thing. All the trials really acheived was to see how good alternatives to the Minimi were .

Thanks, mate, that's pretty much confirms what Hauser's article says.

[IDF_TANKER]

No, sorry - I'm not aware of any report being published as the whole thing was rushed through under UOR.

No problem, I already got the answer. Cheers.

[Bisley_Bob]

if you had something as portable as the minimi in 7.62mm you could replace both and have a lighter weapon than the gimpy

The problem is that if you make it lighter you get more of an overheating issue. Also, I have no idea if the 7.62 Minimi could do the same job as GPMG SF but that's something to think about.

[walsallfc]

anyone seen the new L129 rifle

[IDF_TANKER]

the SPIKES capablilities were better than JAVELIN but the only problem with it was it wouldnt hit any of the targets which was quite a biggie!

I'm afraid you are misinformed:

Hi,
Some years ago I attended a conference in London sponsered by SMi, one of the regular armour/anti-armour conferences I attend each year.

There was a highly detailed, official briefing from a senior representative of the Finnish military. The officer gave an extensive breakdown of the competing advantages of the Spike and Javelin systems. He was adamant that the Spike was the better weapon and was purchased by the Finnish government despite political unease within the Finnish government.

The Spike and Javelin were found to have comparable warhead effectiveness and both could be fired with excellent results in "fire and forget" mode. The Javelin had a smaller firing signature. On the other hand, the Spike could be upgraded with a fibre-optic spool allowing much longer range and a man in the loop option. The man in the loop option allows a target to be switched prior to impact and the ability to engage a target out of sight behind terrain screening. The Spike was found to have better training and simulation equipment as part of the package offered. The Spike also came with a lightweight but sturdy tripod. This allowed an operator to continue to observe a moving target for an extended period of time before engaging. This is much more difficult to do with Javelin. In addition, the thermal sights and tripod from Spike could be used without a missile pod being attached, allowing a highly sensitive thermal imaging sight for observation purposes.

What off the record conversations I have had with the British team involved with the selection of Javelin rather than Spike, indicate that the Israeli weapon was the choice of the trials team but this choice was over-ridden by political and strategic considerations. The British army in any future force projection, is almost certainly going to operate alongside US allies. Given that, it makes more sense to use the Javelin. Again what very limited contact I have had with the Irish military in recent years suggests that their choice of Javelin was because of the same inter-operability factors.

The British MoD is now paying a fortune to try and equip Javelin with a tripod, improved training software and hardware and investigating the possibility of incorporating a fibre-optic spool for Javelin. In otherwords creating a copy of the Spike.

cheers
Marsh

Hmmm
It is not anecdotal. If you ever get the chance to talk to blokes in the proc
urement cycle, they are expending an awful lot of energy trying to convert the Javelin to the Spike. "Please can we have a tripod/bipod mount? What are the chances of a fibre-optic man in the loop option "etc. Bloody politics .

cheers
Marsh

[scttgillies]

The new upgraded GPMG (H&K upgraded) With fluted barrel and titanium reciever is meant to be 2kg lighter. The faunt of all honest answers, Soldier Magazine, say so.

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

my mate was on the trials team from anti tank div at warminster i had this conversation with him asking him what the pros and cons of both weapon systems were im not saying politics didnt have an overiding factor in it but he said SPIKE couldnt hit f*ck all.

did soldier magazine say we were getting the new HK GPMG?if so what issue was it so i can look up the pedler of propaganda i know weve got some bodies now that are made by HK but dont think they are titanium and ive yet to see a fluted barrell and the shorter barrell for the light role.

as was said earlier the MINIMI in 7.62 wouldnt have the range or the capablity of GPMG in the SF role so GPMG would need to be kept for that purpose.

[IDF_TANKER]

my mate was on the trials team from anti tank div at warminster i had this conversation with him asking him what the pros and cons of both weapon systems were im not saying politics didnt have an overiding factor in it but he said SPIKE couldnt hit f*ck all

Not necessarily politics, interoperability considerations were apparently very important. However I find it very hard to believe, that Fins, Germans, Italians, Spaniards, Dutch etc. would purchase a weapon that can't "hit f*ck all". Not to mention IDF.

[scttgillies]

my mate was on the trials team from anti tank div at warminster i had this conversation with him asking him what the pros and cons of both weapon systems were im not saying politics didnt have an overiding factor in it but he said SPIKE couldnt hit f*ck all.

did soldier magazine say we were getting the new HK GPMG?if so what issue was it so i can look up the pedler of propaganda i know weve got some bodies now that are made by HK but dont think they are titanium and ive yet to see a fluted barrell and the shorter barrell for the light role.

as was said earlier the MINIMI in 7.62 wouldnt have the range or the capablity of GPMG in the SF role so GPMG would need to be kept for that purpose.

The issue is this months, the one with the guy with the hoodie and herrick medal on the front. It has the shorter fluted barrel in the picture.

[Bisley_Bob]

It's on page 45, pretty tiny picture.

[AIRBORNEJOCK]

i take it thats the same page with the picture of the rifle that says its an LSW.

[DeltaWhisky58]

anyone seen the new L129 rifle

I know you're new to the forum, but the info is all here if only you'd make the effort to look. The L129A1 is well covered here, the the Equipment forum.