New Combat Shotgun
AA12 Combat Shotgun
12 gauge, recoil compensated, full automatic.
38 sec. video for dialup: http://members.ij.net/aa12/Intro_short_LS.wmv
38 sec. video for high speed: http://members.ij.net/aa12/Intro_short_HS.wmv
Videos are Windows media format and require Windows Media Player
Thoughts and opinons are welcomed.
Uhhhh... the AA-12 to me looks just like a new version of the 1980's shotgun... not really a step forward. If Law Enforcement and or Military need a combat shotgun they certainly would have the USAS-12 as an option as that one has been out for going on 20 years now.
Barrel length: 460 mm
Length: 960 mm
Weight 6.2kg loaded with 10 rounds
Capacity: 10 round box magazine or 20 round drum
Until Later
TR
The USMC was looking into the HK Close Assault Weapon back when it was under development but never pursued the idea. Their new combat shotgun, the M1014, is semi-automatic. There's no real need in the military for a fully-automatic shotgun.
The U.S. Military just adopted a new shotgun. I see no need for another shotgun at this time.
The USAS 12 was the worst POS ever. They would not feed and cycle well.
I have seen several and three shots before an major jam was the best one ever did.
USSOCOM has been looking at the LSS to add to the SOPMOD kit.
The SOPMOD program is essentially dead dead (the further extensions, Block III and IV have been canceled, and Block II is being looked at more now as a transition to the new programs that have been lined up by the Army), in favor of SCAR-L. However, the addons that were being developed both along the lines of the shotgun component (XM26 MASS) and the Enchanced Grenade Launcher Module or EGLM component (XM320/HK AG-C) will both be incorporated into the new program. The XM26 has already been fielded on a very small basis in Iraq and Afghanistan for operational testing, and is more of an extension of the Masterkey idea.
Fielding a combat shotgun has always run into ammuntion capacity, size, and more importantly realistic range. A weapon that is restricted to CQB or MOUT operations is not a realistic issue weapon, and most attempts to increase ammunition capacity of shotguns have added ridiculous bulk to the weapon system (see the Atichson Assault Shotgun and its successor the USAS-12 both featured in this thread). It appears that the underbarrel accessory shotgun (Here called the Modular Accessory Shotgun System or MASS) or a more standard pump or pump/auto (auto shotguns are notorious sensitive and usually not selected for military service) weapon such as the Benelli XM1014, Mossberg M590A1, or Remington M870, will continue to be fielded on a more specific basis, and will be probably the extent to which the shotgun finds itself fielded.
Actually, the Atchisson Assault 12 predates the USAS-12. Indeed, the USAS-12 may well have been derived from the AA-12. Max Atchisson began working on his design as early as 1971. The photo looks like a 1984-vintage prototype.Originally Posted by TR
What's SCAR-L?
Yeah Max had two major design periods... the first being in 1971/1972 with the below prototype.
Then he began refining his design afterwards and by 1983/1984 the below model was being tested.
Full auto shotguns for military/law enforcement applications are really a mixed bag. For law enforcement the legal reprercussions alone would probably keep it from being adopted in large quantities. For military I don't think many militaries feel a need for full-auto fire from shotguns when pump action and semi-auto gets the job done as it is today.
Until Later,
TR
The progression of Army programs since essentially what amounts to the cancellation of SOPMOD Block III and IV is this:
The Special Purpose Reciever program (SPR) which eventually got tossed over to the Navy who built a bunch of protos at the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC). It appears that they sort of gave up and it appears only the rifle component (and perhaps the carbine component) was realized.
The Army moved from that to the SOF-SCR, or Special Operations Force-Special Combat Rifle, a sort of combination of the SPR and the last of the SOPMOD Blocks. The major difference here was the SOF-SCR requirements added in the need to be caliber interchangable beyond the standard NATO fare, with both 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm, along with the new 6.8mm SPC appearing on the list of possibles. Probably an attempt to go forward with the abismal failure presented by the KAC SR-47, as well as, the SR-74, which now is probably going to be more myth than reality.
Moving on from that, the program was modified and renamed SCAR-L or Special Combat Assault Rifle-Light. Most people had originally thought the XM8 would be the SCAR-L contender, but it would appear that influential forces within the Army have simply suggested it as a replacement, when it appears from almost all evidence that it offers a neglidgable increase in reliability and functionality, as well as, a factually neglidgable reduction in weight (not to mention that that personal weapon has been the most lightened piece of the infantryman's kit, and since they're still lugging between 100-150 lbs of gear, I would say that further jerking around with 10 lbs of it should not continue to be a meaningful priority). SCAR-L seems to have fallen by the wayside with the general push to get the XM8 adopted.
The major addition here has little to do with the SCAR-L and more with the addition of the SCAR-H to the mix. The "Heavy" component of the program here is planned to be chambered in a heavier round, at this point most likely 7.62x51mm, and will serve as a sort of designated marksman rifle, finally giving most services the equipment needed to finally phase out the various iterations of the M14/XM21/M21/M25 lying about.
so far the scar has not gon away, the date cut off for submissions was the 17th of this month i believe. so testing is just begining.
we'll see what will come out of this, but the xm8 had to be modified to fit specs as socom actually wants a rifle to fit its requirments and will not just take the first thing it is handed like the army.
but the army is the only branch which seems so attached to the xm8 program, i wont be suprised if socom adopts something different and the marines follow their lead.
just for the record, i dig shotguns. especially in a defensive mout scenario. i also like the wide range of ammo that's available. i hear what you're saying about the bulk of the ammo but if you're tasked with guarding a permanent fixture humping ammo involves carrying it from the truck to the building. as for range, with rifled slugs i can hit a gnat's turd at..... you know where i'm going, most fire exchanges in urban settings happen in less than x number of feet. .75 moa? 1.5 moa? it doesn't matter, with buck shot you'll probably hit the phucker. he took cover? it doesn't matter, car door meet breneke slug.
what would you rather use in a jungle ambush/counter-ambush, a m4 or an 870? i know what i'd be leaning towards.
i'm getting a little carried away. but i feel it's a versatile short range tool. one that can used to match the escalting level of danger faced by a modern soldier from cs rounds and rubber bullets on up to 00 buck and slugs.
now if someone could just come up with a supersonic sabot round that could reach out to 450 yards and didn't have excessive chamber pressures i'd be as happy as a pig wrapped around some dead ****e.
The USMC doesn't have a very long history of successfully adopting different arms as the US Army. Most of the time their projects are either flops or they end up being essentially forced in one way or another to bow out to Army pressure. Just look at the M16, the M249, and the M240. They tried to stick with the M14, their M16 HBARs, and all of their M60 upgrades were rejected despite their quality by the Army, and in the end they just decided to bag it and adopt the M240G.
Pumps are better for combat, but nice video clips.
whys that?
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