Reply With QuoteI forgot about one important thing. You're right here: the cost reduction is not the only one factor. Forging strenghtens the material so you get another advantage on material properties.Originally Posted by ko5ma
That's what surprises me all the time in our country. When you suffer from a tooth ache - you go to a dentist. When you need a law advise - you go to a lawyer. But when the technical/technological issues are concerned - you believe.... a journalist. That's very common in Polish media, especially in TV. There are many technical attendant "experts" who know shyte about the issue but yet they (for some abstract reason) claim to be a top experts. And -what is even more strange - people really believe in their BS.
I forgot about one important thing. You're right here: the cost reduction is not the only one factor. Forging strenghtens the material so you get another advantage on material properties.
ROTFL! Tony6 I haven't read such stupid and childish answer for a long time! One of the escape way when you have no arguments at all is to refer to some authority. But, tony6 no problem, I can play this way.
So, in my planet Earth there are thousands of engineers - some of them are smart and cultured and some not. In my world we paid smart engineers to fight stupid engineers ideas. That's why I - as the engineer - who by the way has some knowledge about the firearms, without any efford can find and show the weakness of your logic, the lack of any knowledge about the topic you've self-proclamed an expert. And that's why you have not any arguments. And thats why you cannot answer my question at all. And yes, this is the thing the engineers do with impostors like you
So, once again - what modern assault rifles (because we talked about them not any firearms) have got an forged receivers? Show us your expertize!
You try to avoid this simple question in many way, try to be rude, try to find the most funny way to convince the world that you the real McCoy engineer, but you cannot answer it. And yes, this very funny to see how you are humiliating yourself in front of the whole world, and you cannot see it
Because it is not true. But, as an engineers I give you a second chance - try to find argument (not your assuptions which - as we all know - are based on nothing) that the German made it otherway. Clock is tickingThank you tony6 for your care, but I forgot more about it than you learn in your life. That's why I have arguments and you not. But, you have a chance, try to convince us, good luck!Well, as he himself said: he should wake up in XXI century and read something about modern firearms technology
The bullpup looks like a Tavor, from pistol grip to butt.
"looks like" comments are always so much useful..
What I like a GREAT deal about the MSBS 5.56 is that the bullpup version is an excellent Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) that would be the "bees knees" for support and it appears to have a great number of parts in common with the full sized rifle. Of course both use the same ammunition and magazines as well, which eliminates logistic issues to a great degree. The weakness of the HK MP7 and the FNH P90 have been 1) the ammunition they use has been questioned for lethality and 2) they both add another round and different parts to a logistical supply requirement.
With Poland's entry into NATO their requirement for "peace keeping" and various expeditionary missions has increased greatly. They need a light logistical footprint to maintain their flexibility and control costs. As Afghanistan winds down I believe we'll see many NATO nations like Poland having to further tighten their military budgets especially due to the world economic slump.
As long as the MSBS 5.56 bullpup can push the 5.56x45mm round at high enough velocity for PDW range engagement I think it's a real winner. Of course, they'll need a serious break on the end to reduce muzzle flash.
The only issue I can see is that the MSBS full sized rifle's charging handle is too high up and too close to the top optic rail. That's going to make it a pain to use when you've got optics mounted above it. This is an issue with a lot of new rifles.
This is a very nice project, I like it! Is always good to see a European country investing in there one know-how.New 2nd generations mock-ups of the MSBS-5,56 classic/bullpup design small arms system, based on common upper receiver. Quick barrel change option.
MSBS-5,56 bullpup design assault rifle with 406-mm barrel. A - two-position gas regulator (normal/silencer), B - cocking handle (ambidextrous, non-reciprocating), C - magazine release button (ambidextrous), D - three position fire selector (ambidextrous), E - barrel locking screw (turnbuckle), F - additional magazine release button (left side), F - bolt catch release latch
MSBS-5,56 classic design carbine with 255-mm barrel.
some new imagess released by Altair:
source:
http://www.altair.com.pl/cz-art-3084
Just 5 cents to our discussion about M16/M4/HK416 upper/lower receiver forgings.
That's how these things look like before machining process.
Lower receiver forging:
and another photo with mag well opening already broached in:
Upper forging:
and both after machining & anodizing:
We will still waiting for any proof, that HK416 recivers are forged. Apart of your strong faith, naturally
Plus the question you cannot answer for a few weeks, once again - what modern assault rifles (because we talked about them not any firearms) have got an forged receivers? Show us your expertize!
Compared to the first pictures the weapons system is progressing quite well (at least to my eyes). The abilty to use it both as a bullpup and traditional configuration is intriguing. However I would be more interested in the internals. Is it a long or short stroke piston system? AK or Stoner type bolt? Extra steel guide rails in the reciever or "just" aluminum?
Short stroke.The Johnson's typeAK or Stoner type bolt?
"The Gun God":
On previous page you called me a liar and man of bull**** and now you want to discuss with me..? Grow up, man. Start to act like an adult person and then maybe people will treat you seriously.
As for the HK416 forgings:
if someone else than our beloved Star-of-Journalism wants to know why I believe that both HK416 receivers are forged I'll be happy to explain it.
Last edited by tony6; 10-01-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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