If so, that would make Obama the first Black Russian Kenyan Hawaiian POTUS.Originally Posted by valtrex
What the controversy over Reagan's visit to Bitburg failed to bring up was the fact that every year, the 36th TFW Wing Commander paid his respects to the buried soldiers in this cementary.
I know 'cause I went to base HS.
exactly.I would also like to add:
get your ****ing heads out of your ass!
It's very much todays world where a leader can be so strong that he admits mistakes of the past generations.
Now you have got your modern generation prestige that I am not so sure (after reading through this thread) you deserve.
Many many people in the world (esp. after Bush) think that US is, if I may, really the "Team America" full of arrogant asshats who would never do anything like this courtesy of acknowledgement. Obama's comment is a big big crack on the bad PR US has been getting lately.
It makes you look good again. Good is strong, evil is not.
I think the real question about World War II, and the way it was run, was that if the EXACT same circumstances were to occur today, would we do it again the same exact way? I would say "yes we can" to borrow a phrase from POTUS.
Total war, is total war. One does not win wars, by sending flowers to the enemy.
PS.....those were not mistakes, those were decisions at the moment, made when it appeared that we could loose the war, and it was a very very real possiblity we would.
Lol, I've never heard even one historian express his concerns that the US of A could have lost the war in Europe in late February 1945. And just alike no historian would agree that bombing an already destroyed city which was overcrowded with refugees at that time would have been a contribution to military success.
Why not just speak out the facts? Germany's industry lay wasted in midst '44 already and further air raids had little to no military significance. The aerial bombing was nothing else than a punishment. You should ask yourself why the campaigns bore names like "Operation Gomorrha" since 1943. I'm not well-versed in the bible, but weren't Sodom and Gomorrha destroyed by the Lord for the sins of their inhabitants?
If Obama is going to apologize for "war crimes" then I guess that his grandfather, the one he keeps saying that "served in Patton's Army", was a War Criminal then.
That's not true IIRC. German industrial production continued to grow into 1945, not to mention the Ardennes offensive occuring in December of '44. Germany was on the road to defeat in late '44 and early '45, but not yet defeated. Not to mention the fact that Stalin requested assistance from the Allies in bombing the Germans assisting their advance.Why not just speak out the facts? Germany's industry lay wasted in midst '44 already and further air raids had little to no military significance. The aerial bombing was nothing else than a punishment. You should ask yourself why the campaigns bore names like "Operation Gomorrha" since 1943. I'm not well-versed in the bible, but weren't Sodom and Gomorrha destroyed by the Lord for the sins of their inhabitants?
I'm not defending the destruction of Dresden (or Königsberg for that matter etc.) as retrospectively and in the minds of some generals at the time it was unnecessary and regrettable from a human and cultural standpoint, however second-guessing now or even labeling the bombing a war crime is inappropriate.
The ****ing jug-eared clodhopper just reads what is put in front of him. I blame his staff for failing at researching his family history. He is just a politician, not some bright intellectual who has a firm grasp of anything besides being a politician.
I didn't say a word about the growth of the industrial output. It's a matter of fact that most aboveground facilities were destroyed after massive raids of 1943 and 1944. There was only a rising output because of the massive usage of forced labourers and improvement of the production flow.
Which was a counter attack by its military nature, and no "offensive".
That situation did not include any chance for Germany to win the war like commanding stated.
then that STFU goes the same for the Europeans who want it for helping us during our war for indpenence and for the other whiny faction who needs us to say sorry for fire bombing a cityduring a time of war or any other hard choice we have had to make...its funny how that works out Lau isnt it?So in other words, all the Americans who call for more gratitude from europeans liberated by the US in WW2, should just STFU?
It's history and we learn from it. Move on.
Sums it up nicely, how that can be bad is beyond me.
Last edited by philbob; 05-22-2009 at 01:00 PM.
who do you think desrves the modern pretige then? please enlighten us
Obama does, you don't.
no he has not done anything to deserve it yet.
Also i think i missundertood your comment or you mine, i was refering to nation states not indiviuals
I did not say Europeans or Americans should STFU, I was asking you if that is how you want it?
The "?" implies it's a question.So in other words, all the Americans who call for more gratitude from europeans liberated by the US in WW2, should just STFU?
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