Page 54 of 306 FirstFirst ... 444464748495051525354555657585960616264104154 ... LastLast
Results 796 to 810 of 4577

Thread: Georgian Army, Navy and Air Force

  1. #796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Yeah, that "report" by the US pilots about Indian MiG-21s in the US was mostly bogus. They were mistaken about the ISraeli radars, and the engines. And the invisible jamming was......curious to say the least as well.
    Who knows, maybe MIG-21bison is really that good, but the reports seemed a bit to favorable.

    Nevertheless, the MiG-21Bison is indeed an impressive aircrfat, especially considering the capabilities of the first gen MiG-21.
    Yeah, the radar reports where probably wrong, but they definatly have new jamming technology. I never said anything about engines, I assume they still have the original ones...

  2. #797
    Suspended account - user request
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bize her yer Trabzon
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCrudy View Post
    I'm sure Georgia would love to buy a new Western fighter, but I don't think the current political atmospere allows for that possibility. I also wouldn't take the Mig-23 over the Mig-21, as the Mig-23 is a horrid dogfighter and several Libyan Mig-23's where shot down by Egyptian Mig-21s in the brief Libyan-Egyptian war.

    Money talks. Plus there is not much Russia can do to America if Georgia bought aircraft from them. Although I do not know with Obama, but I know for sure pentagon supports Georgia.

    Mig 23 would do wonders, it is not agile, but get it 360 degree boresight and HMCS and that would not matter.

  3. #798

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaahmetoglu ლორთქიფანიძე View Post
    Money talks.
    Georgia doesn't have any to talk with.

    What military need would fighters fulfill, exactly, to justify the vast expense?

    As for MiG-23s, the only country capable/ experienced with upgrading MiG-23s is, AFAIK - surprise, Russia. Not to mention that any MiG-23s they managed to buy would be extremely old and well-used, and fodder for any fourth generation aircraft (MiG-29, Su-27) anyway.

  4. #799

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo1 View Post
    If an S-400 was moved into the area, it'd be defended by Pantsir-S1s, which are intended to shoot down incoming weaponry. That's assuming the hypothetical ARM-equipped aircraft got the first shot in, which is unlikely.

    Not that this really matters, since in the case of any conflict Russian forces would, as usual, be moving with their Tunguskas, Strela-10s, Tors, Buks, and S-300Vs if they feel so inclined. No handful of fighter planes (which is all Georgia could ever afford) could penetrate that multi-layered defence and actually cause any significant harm, if any.

    As was previously stated, Georgia cannot do anything militarily to repulse Russia. It's too small, and Russia's too big. Throwing money at the problem is just a waste of time.
    History is full of examples of smaller armies fending off much larger ones. Look at Napolian, or the Greeks against Persia, or the battle at Rorke's Drift.War is not simply "I have a much larger army so I win." It is about strategy, operational thinking, and tactics. It absolutely is possible for Georgia to drive off a Russian invasion. Their problem is that their military leadership lacks good strategical and operational thinkers, and that the training of their troops is still largely poor.

  5. #800
    Senior Member Elbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Pollos Hermanos
    Posts
    5,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo1 View Post

    As for MiG-23s, the only country capable/ experienced with upgrading MiG-23s is, AFAIK - surprise, Russia.
    I doubt that upgrading 30-year old MiG-23s is beyond the abilities of Israeli Aircraft Industries, which has already studied upgrades for nearly the entire modern MiG family.

  6. #801
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Serious TR1 is serious.
    Posts
    9,875

    Default

    Well, MiG-23-98 is a pretty nice aircraft, but that is a Russian upgrade program, and the best market for used MiG-23MLD airframes is indeed Russia.

  7. #802
    Senior Member Elbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Pollos Hermanos
    Posts
    5,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Well, MiG-23-98 is a pretty nice aircraft, but that is a Russian upgrade program, and the best market for used MiG-23MLD airframes is indeed Russia.
    The MiG-23 is an unnecessarily complex aircraft for smaller countries like Georgia. A MiG-21 would be IMO a better fit: better spares availability, plenty of proven upgrade packages on the market, and cheaper to operate.

    Something like the Romanian LanceR

  8. #803
    Suspended account - user request
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bize her yer Trabzon
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo1 View Post
    Georgia doesn't have any to talk with.

    What military need would fighters fulfill, exactly, to justify the vast expense?

    As for MiG-23s, the only country capable/ experienced with upgrading MiG-23s is, AFAIK - surprise, Russia. Not to mention that any MiG-23s they managed to buy would be extremely old and well-used, and fodder for any fourth generation aircraft (MiG-29, Su-27) anyway.

    They spend money on the armed forces, and you would be a fool if you where a seller and did not capitalize on that.


    Actually Ukraine upgrades Mig 27's I know they have done it for Kazakhstan. How much compatibility it has with the Mig 23 I do not know. But Israel is another option as well.

    BTW Ukraine also posses a lot of Mig 29's and Su 27's, that Ukraine could always sell to Georgia.

  9. #804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCrudy View Post
    History is full of examples of smaller armies fending off much larger ones. Look at Napolian
    Napoleon? The France of Napoleon was an indisputable world power. Georgia's no France. It's not even an Italian city-state.

    or the Greeks against Persia
    Vastly superior military technology / training.

    or the battle at Rorke's Drift.
    A tactical skirmish, where, again, the British had vastly superior military technology.

    War is not simply "I have a much larger army so I win." It is about strategy, operational thinking, and tactics. It absolutely is possible for Georgia to drive off a Russian invasion.
    No, it isn't. That's crazy talk. War very much is "I have a larger army so I win", when all other aspects are equal - and they are. The idea that George could ever repulse a Russian attack is as insane as proposing as Georgia could repulse an American attack. The difference in numbers and sheer scope of weaponry arrayed against Georgia renders it impossible.

    Their problem is that their military leadership lacks good strategical and operational thinkers, and that the training of their troops is still largely poor.
    You can't think your way out of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and facing invasions from two different directions from the same enemy simultaneously.

  10. #805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaahmetoglu ლორთქიფანიძე View Post
    They spend money on the armed forces, and you would be a fool if you where a seller and did not capitalize on that.
    Fighter aircraft and the training and logistical support base to maintain them are a whole order of magnitude of a different kettle of fish from what Georgia spends now.

    Actually Ukraine upgrades Mig 27's I know they have done it for Kazakhstan. How much compatibility it has with the Mig 23 I do not know. But Israel is another option as well.
    Night and day. MiG-27 is a ground attack aircraft with optical attack systems like the Su-25. It has no radar.

    BTW Ukraine also posses a lot of Mig 29's and Su 27's, that Ukraine could always sell to Georgia.
    And when Georgia needs spares for the RD-33 and AL-31F engines, where all the spares flow from Russia? They become very expensive gate guards.

  11. #806
    Suspended account - user request
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bize her yer Trabzon
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo1 View Post
    Napoleon? The France of Napoleon was an indisputable world power. Georgia's no France. It's not even an Italian city-state.
    During Napoleons first campaigns into Italy, I thought I remember he was outnumbered and the troops had very bad equipment, i.e one shoe on a soldier etc.

    Vastly superior military technology / training.
    Right because the sword versus the spear did wonders. And yes maybe training, but Greeks did not have any superior military technology over the Persians.




    No, it isn't. That's crazy talk. War very much is "I have a larger army so I win", when all other aspects are equal - and they are. The idea that George could ever repulse a Russian attack is as insane as proposing as Georgia could repulse an American attack. The difference in numbers and sheer scope of weaponry arrayed against Georgia renders it impossible.



    You can't think your way out of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and facing invasions from two different directions from the same enemy simultaneously.


    You obviously forget the Finnish Soviet War.

  12. #807

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaahmetoglu ლორთქიფანიძე View Post
    During Napoleons first campaigns into Italy, I thought I remember he was outnumbered and the troops had very bad equipment, i.e one shoe on a soldier etc.
    What, so the Italians had far superior weapons than he did? I think not.

    Right because the sword versus the spear did wonders. And yes maybe training, but Greeks did not have any superior military technology over the Persians.
    Utter nonsense. Try a full panoply of bronze armor and the massive hoplons against Persians wearing cloth and using wicker shields.

    You obviously forget the Finnish Soviet War.
    You mean the war that Finland lost? Though I fail to see how Finland was in an utterly hopeless position as Georgia, given it can be invaded at will from both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

  13. #808
    Suspended account - user request
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bize her yer Trabzon
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo1 View Post
    Fighter aircraft and the training and logistical support base to maintain them are a whole order of magnitude of a different kettle of fish from what Georgia spends now.
    Countries with smaller Military budgets then Georgia pull it off.

    Night and day. MiG-27 is a ground attack aircraft with optical attack systems like the Su-25. It has no radar.
    Ukraine did the body work for the Mig-27, Israel could fill in the technological gaps.

    And when Georgia needs spares for the RD-33 and AL-31F engines, where all the spares flow from Russia? They become very expensive gate guards.
    China builds a copy for both of those engines.

  14. #809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaahmetoglu ლორთქიფანიძე View Post
    Countries with smaller Military budgets then Georgia pull it off.
    Like?

    Ukraine did the body work for the Mig-27, Israel could fill in the technological gaps.
    Probably. It's still a huge waste of time.

    China builds a copy for both of those engines.
    No they don't, and the last thing China is going to do is help Georgia against Russia.

  15. #810
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Age
    29
    Posts
    632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbs View Post


    Future renovation planned by TAM.
    Do you have any info as to what product is planned for this future plant or would they still continue work on the frog foots?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •