Best sight for M4

[millhouse]

What is the most effect sight for the M4? Ive heard of SOCOM buying all of EOTECH's stock, and of Trijicon ACOG, Aimpoint, etc. What is best for combat situations which require firing on the go?

[SABER 2-3]

What is the most effect sight for the M4? Ive heard of SOCOM buying all of EOTECH's stock, and of Trijicon ACOG, Aimpoint, etc. What is best for combat situations which require firing on the go?

The best sight for the M-4 is the one that is built into the carry handle and on the barrel right in front of the handguards. Its totally amazing w/ elevation, windage controls; it has a two posistion peep sight (1 for long range/1 for up close) and its front sight adjusts for all ranges.

It also does a stellar job "on the go" due to its perfect alignment w/ the rifle. The best part: no outside power source and it rarely gets knocked off.

There is a drawback though-it requires taking your ass to the range on a regular basis to perfect. Oh well, nothings perfect, huh.

[Beloved Shiv]

'Love it Saber.

I recall reading range-results on how improved target acquisition and "reflexive" aiming improve accuracy for even long-time shooters.

But gadgets don't make the shooter. Tack on all the lasers and wiz-bangs, if you can't consistenly stroke that shot with the front sight stable, that $900 ACOG don't help.

As far as what's good - Militaryphotos.net has at least a couple photos of active operators with Aimpoints and ACOGs. I'd assume from the extent of their usage there's a facet of quality in both.

[USAF G]

I agree with Saber, iron sights always work. For you gear heads out there, the PJs are using the Trijicon Reflex sights on their M4s, for the most part (some times they use the ACOG). They like the fact that they require no batteries and are very hard to break (important if you spend a lot of time jumping out of helicopters and planes). G

[millhouse]

I'm just curious, anyone have photos of the view from each of the sights?

How does a soldier get a hold of these sights - do they come in a kit? The standard issue SOPMOD kits include a reflex or an ACOG scope, correct?

[Beloved Shiv]

Fer sure, Dude - http://www.trijicon-inc.com/user/par...cfm?PartID=142

And - http://www.aimpoint.com/3d/3d.htm

Interestingly - the reticle representation differs slightly in the printed brochure Trijicon supplies for the milspec ACOG. Bushmaster's printed catalog also has a printed representation, differing significantly but with a bullet drop compensator that appears quite authentic.

I'll try to dig them out and scan 'em if you're interested.

[Chris196]

The Trijicon Reflex is being almost entirely phased out. It has too many issues with the Tritium powered reticle washing out in bright sunlight and when used with powerful flashlights inside rooms. It also has fogging issues.

The Eotech is an excellent CQB sight. The large 65moa reticle is distracting for me beyond room length, and I dont like the push button controls.

The newest models of the Aimpoint M68 are outstanding. The 4moa dot works well for CQB as well as shots out to 300yds. The battery life is astounding compared to any other red dot reflex sight on the market. It also has more mounting options. Turning on the dot or adjusting its brightness is much easier than others, simply roll the adjustment knob with the palm of your hand. Its my prefered battery powered optic.

The Trijicon ACOG NSN is still the most issued of the ACOG models. Its an excellent combat optic. The ACOGs are the most durable scope out there. For me personally, I find the ranging reticle too busy.

The TA31F ACOG saw use with the Marines on top of M16A4s in Iraq. The TA31 models with Bindon Aiming Concept are becoming the prefered ACOG for those with the choice. It allows excellent long range ability, while at the same time the BAC allows both eyes open close range speed.

You will see the compact ACOGs in use occassionally, as well as the old Colt 4x.

Out of the ones I mentioned, Id take the Aimpoint or the TA31, mounted directly to the flat top reciever, with and ARMS 40 back up iron sight.

[rob]

"there is nothing more eligant then an iron sight."
-ussocom drill instructer

[Chris196]

The vast majority of the United States military, including the units that have the choice of just about any equipment they want, disagree with that concept. The current generation of optics allow you to hit faster and at farther ranges with complete reliability.

Dont fear the new technology.

[rob]

but the iron sight will work in any conditions. scopes fog, and break much easier. you notice that almost all set ups of the m4 have flip up sights. some even have the normal sights even though they will block some of the scope.

optic sights are not the answer, good training and practice is.

[millhouse]

I agree. Any tips on targeting on the move? How does one train to shoot while moving? It seems like the hardest thing to do in the midst of battle.

[Chris196]

It is. Shooting on the move is a last resort. It takes some good professional instruction and a lot of practice to become proficient at it to the point where you can count on your shots hitting where you want them to.

We agree to disagree on optics Rob

The Aimpoint and Eotech allow so much faster and more instinctive shooting at close range that irons dont even compare. In a dim light, do you really want to be searching for your front sight, or do you want a bright red aiming point?

Optics like the ACOG gather light and allow much more target identification at night and in dim lighting conditions.

Optics dont replace marksmanship, they enhance it. The basics are still required to make hits.

[Royal]

Optics dont replace marksmanship, they enhance it. The basics are still required to make hits.

Very true - as long as the basics are still taught.

A story (pull up a sandbag): Many years ago the UK used the L1A1 and taught recruits the principles of marksamanship. Then the L85 was trialed - standards/results were massively higher. It was introduced into service (with people taught on the L1A1) and standards in annual tests jumped. A few years passed. Standards plummeted - recruits were no longer being taught properly beacuse it was so easy to use optics (and because the length of training was cut to save money). This is a problem that is only now being addressed in the UK, 15 years on.

Don't forget the basics...

[SABER 2-3]

CHRIS196,
Where are you hearing that the REFLEX sights are being phased out?
Almost every one at my office has or has requested one. As for wash-out, nobody here has that problem, the polarized lens cover is just for that purpose.

As for sights YES I do use optics (REFLEX) but it is (as are most around here) mounted on my carry handle so that I still have full use of my iron sights (that are lumunous by the way) and all of the shooters here must qualify w/ zero optical enhancement.

Shooting on the move? Grab your rifle and gear and move to the road marked "LIVE FIRE RANGES AHEAD-CONTACT RANGE CONTROL" if you get lost just shout were already on line, living there.

[Beloved Shiv]

The vast majority of the United States military, including the units that have the choice of just about any equipment they want, disagree with that concept. The current generation of optics allow you to hit faster and at farther ranges with complete reliability.

Dont fear the new technology.

Any active jarheads present on this board to back up this statement? I ask specifically about Marines' preference and training impetus for two reasons. Firstly, because I'm hard-pressed to acknowledge "vast majority" as solid argument. It tends to define just numbers - not actual proof and often only reports popularity/fashion. Secondly, the USMC ostensibly requires even pilots to qualify as riflemen periodically - a shootist's service. I'm hearing (and have only heard, thus now asking further) even MEUSOC prefer iron sights, with maybe white lights, for CQB / MOUT. Any corroboration or counter is appreciated.

'Don't mean to come after you Chris. I maintain eyes-open optics are no panacea, but myself I've had an Optima installed on my Glock and I'm trying to hunt down an older Meprolight with the amber delta for my USC. Just getting curious after mulling over this topic.