Israel: UNIFIL assisted illegal crossing

[RoyB]

Hallo RoyB,

Thank you for your detailed and honest response, Connaught Ranger.
Rest in peace, for those who have lost their lives.

[Connaught Ranger]

accident's happen all the time, the IDF never intentionally targetted UN, ever.
as for being unarmed, they left their weapons inside their APC and were outside sitting on lawnchairs under umbrellas.



a few positions were abandoned at the start of the 2nd lebanon war

Accidents do NOT happen, there is always a cause.

With regards the I.D.F. Merkava tank round into At-Tiri which resulted in the death of an Irish U.N. soldier, the I.D.F. inquiry found the guy (a conscript IDF soldier) who fired the gun, guilty of negligence, they also offered a compensation package via the Israeli Ambasador in Ireland to Private McGloughlin's widow, which, she rejected, as in her words its blood money and will not give her back her husband, or return the father of her child.

Strange how you could observe them close enough to see where their weapons were located, and yet still manage to fire a burst of machine gun fire within 100 meters of them, all by accident of course.

Connaught Ranger.

[Atlantic Friend]

UNIFIL personnal know what's going on under them (Hizb diging and building under UNIFIL base for example) but they can do anything... my question why the french bring 155mm heavy armored artillery tank, and Leclerc tank? If the mandate is only to observe light armored vehicle are ok.


[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu189/ditedonc/unifil_Lebanon_***************_Mag_.jpg[/IMG]

To deter attacks/provocations against UNIFIL soldiers/positions. Which regrettably have occurred, and involved both HA and IDF.

[RoyB]

To deter attacks/provocations against UNIFIL soldiers/positions. Which regrettably have occurred, and involved both HA and IDF.

So it all there just for deterrence?
Well, obviously its not working.

[ggk]

So it all there just for deterrence?
Well, obviously its not working.

tell some of your friend to shoot the lecrec.......

on topic:

Their (U.N.I.F.I.L.) mandate states they allow the opposing force to move around their locations as they have no authorization to get involved with one side or the other. They have always had the option if an all out war was to break out to move in the direction of the Israeli border and larger there.

Connaught Ranger.

x2..thats about it. ...i mean what do we expect? UN troops shooting anyone in their sight? i mean who do that right?

[Givati575]

tell some of your friend to shoot the lecrec.......

on topic:



x2..thats about it. ...i mean what do we expect? UN troops shooting anyone in their sight? i mean who do that right?

I've seen a few French LeClercs driving by the border. The Israelis think every tank looks the same. According to them there is only the Merkava or the t-72. They didn't get a kick out of it, but I sure as hell did!

[Atlantic Friend]

So it all there just for deterrence?
Well, obviously its not working.

Meaning what?

[RoyB]

Meaning what?

Meaning that the deterrence is not working.

[Atlantic Friend]

Meaning that the deterrence is not working.

How is the deterrence not working, that was my question.

[RoyB]

How is the deterrence not working, that was my question.

UNIFIL being tossed around when they enter a territory where they supposedly shouldn't be by Hizballah.
And the recent events of UNIFIL soldiers being stoned and attacked by the mob, while they don't have the authority to defend themselves.

[Atlantic Friend]

UNIFIL being tossed around when they enter a territory where they supposedly shouldn't be by Hizballah.
And the recent events of UNIFIL soldiers being stoned and attacked by the mob, while they don't have the authority to defend themselves.

It's always the problem in peace-keeping missions - mobs I mean. In these situations, and unless one is ready to see live coverage of one's soldiers killing civilians by the dozen, most weapons are useless.

Having heavy equipment nevertheless has its advantages. Suppose conditions on the ground radically change tomorrow, and Hezbollah starts hitting the UNIFIL units for real. Even if the UN immediately approved a change of ROE, it'd take weeks before the heavies are deployed, and in the meanwhile the light UNIFIL detachments would have to be withdrawn.

[ase290406]

Rubber bullets? Tear Gas?

[Moledet]

It's always the problem in peace-keeping missions - mobs I mean. In these situations, and unless one is ready to see live coverage of one's soldiers killing civilians by the dozen, most weapons are useless.

Having heavy equipment nevertheless has its advantages. Suppose conditions on the ground radically change tomorrow, and Hezbollah starts hitting the UNIFIL units for real. Even if the UN immediately approved a change of ROE, it'd take weeks before the heavies are deployed, and in the meanwhile the light UNIFIL detachments would have to be withdrawn.

And what about confiscation of UNIFIL soldiers personal cameras by Hizballah members? That wasn't a mob yet they gave them the cameras and got them back through the LAF with all pictures deleted (quite shameful for a soldier).

It's not that I don't appreciate the fact they chose to be there but UNIFIL has zero deterrence to both sides.

P.S. we'll see if in two weeks the UNSC will change the mandate, I kinda doubt it since the first of goal of UNIFIL is to avoid casualties and only then carry missions that can bring stability.

[Mordoror]

accident's happen all the time, the IDF never intentionally targetted UN, ever.
as for being unarmed, they left their weapons inside their APC and were outside sitting on lawnchairs under umbrellas.

Noooooo ??
so artillery round accidentally falled on a UN position full or Chinese observers in a flat plain and no Hezb position beyond 900 m ? ...

or some armor accidentally roamed finish APCs out of the road ??

or some F15 accidentally dived on French position in straffing formation ??

BS... isareli are as provocative as the hezb when it comes to UNIFIL....

[tanks_alot]

It's always the problem in peace-keeping missions - mobs I mean. In these situations, and unless one is ready to see live coverage of one's soldiers killing civilians by the dozen, most weapons are useless.

No one gives a second thought to UNIFIL, not Israel and not Hezballah. after the Second Lebanon war, the new and "improved" UNIFIL was under French command and supposedly they planned to play hard ball with Israel. there were a number of instances where the French claimed that the IDF was flying in a threatning manner over their positions and they were were already with the finger on the trigger on their AA missiles. they made a big deal about it in the news, the French defence or foreign (don't remember anymore) made some harsh statements etc'. but as we say, "the dogs bark and the convoy passes". the flights kept going and the French realized how things work around here and became quiet.

Same goes for Hezballah, kicking UNIFIL medics from a village, stopping UNIFIL at checkpoints and confiscating equipment etc' etc'.

Hell, even the old UNIFIL had more teeth than the new one.

Having heavy equipment nevertheless has its advantages. Suppose conditions on the ground radically change tomorrow, and Hezbollah starts hitting the UNIFIL units for real. Even if the UN immediately approved a change of ROE, it'd take weeks before the heavies are deployed, and in the meanwhile the light UNIFIL detachments would have to be withdrawn.

If Hezballah started hitting UNIFIL for real, a few tanks wouldn't help them much, they might as well make a dash towards the Israeli border as UNIFIL in it's current state isn't capabale or mentally able to pick a fight with anything.

UNIFIL is just for making nice pictures in the newspapers and not much alse.