How would you implement proportional representation in the US?

[DaveDash]

In reality it has not been so good? NZ is one the most stable countries in the world.

If a party could govern without suffient majority the smaller parties would become irrelevant and it would devolve into a two party system. the system we have now better represents the voting base.

NZ is not one of the most stable countries in the world. Yes it is fairly stable, but I could name a few countries in Europe who enjoy better stability. If we are so stable, why do the Maori hold massive protests waving their own flags, passports, etc?

There wasn't a two party system before MMP was implemented and NZ was doing considerably better globally than it is now.

The government is really quite ineffective for a nation our size. Health care is falling apart, ineffective police force that is poorly resourced and more focused on ticket revenue gathering than crime prevention, poor transportation, racial tension (I know at least three people who were hospitalised after wandering home after a night out because they were white), massive brain drain to Australia/UK, universities fading in quality, secondary school quality fading (This new certificate system they have introduced is pathetic), energy issues due to this ridiculous reliance on "Green" energy, compariative low standard of living to some of our peers, etc etc. Try living in South Auckland for a while and come back and tell me how stable we are.
Proportionally we are also falling well behind Australia. Note, I said proportionally. If it wasn't for a few films over the years to boost tourism we'd be well behind.

Also, if you represent 15% of the people, you should have 15% of the say. But that is quite a foreign concept for Kiwis to fathom, as we are "big" on giving minorities quite a bit more than they deserve. The system we have now does not represent the voting base. It panders to the minority, which is why if you are a White Male living in New Zealand you have significantly less "rights" than almost anyone else. If I still lived there, I for one would rather certian parties in NZ do NOT get a greater say than what they deserve. Some of their views are quite.. extreme.

[HellToupee]

NZ is not one of the most stable countries in the world. Yes it is fairly stable, but I could name a few countries in Europe who enjoy better stability. If we are so stable, why do the Maori hold massive protests waving their own flags, passports, etc?

Do those protests turn violent? We have many protests, last one was 2-5 thousand people walking over the bridge protesting for a walkway, no violence no crack down o the instability.

Maori protests were for Waitangi day as for Passports, that was a scam targeting overstayers, you know people desperate to stay.

There wasn't a two party system before MMP was implemented and NZ was doing considerably better globally than it is now.

Doing better how and why?

The government is really quite ineffective for a nation our size. Health care is falling apart, ineffective police force that is poorly resourced and more focused on ticket revenue gathering than crime prevention, poor transportation, racial tension (I know at least three people who were hospitalised after wandering home after a night out because they were white), massive brain drain to Australia/UK, universities fading in quality, secondary school quality fading (This new certificate system they have introduced is pathetic), energy issues due to this ridiculous reliance on "Green" energy, compariative low standard of living to some of our peers, etc etc. Try living in South Auckland for a while and come back and tell me how stable we are.
Proportionally we are also falling well behind Australia. Note, I said proportionally. If it wasn't for a few films over the years to boost tourism we'd be well behind.

Ineffective police force more concerned with ticketing? Sounds like the crap disgunted drunk drivers and speeders spout off after being caught. Green energy? whats wrong with that, we have ample resources of renewable energy, as well as helps hitting our carbon targets.

Every country has its good and bad, poor and rich areas, as well as their problems, like Australia also has energy issues and water shortages.

Also, if you represent 15% of the people, you should have 15% of the say. But that is quite a foreign concept for Kiwis to fathom, as we are "big" on giving minorities quite a bit more than they deserve. The system we have now does not represent the voting base. It panders to the minority, which is why if you are a White Male living in New Zealand you have significantly less "rights" than almost anyone else. If I still lived there, I for one would rather certian parties in NZ do NOT get a greater say than what they deserve. Some of their views are quite.. extreme.

The previous system did not represent the voting base, a third party could get 15% of the vote and no seat thus no voice at all. System we have no far better represents the voting base than the old system ever did.

White males in NZ having less rights than anyone else is just utter BS, and im a white male.

[Ordie]

OFF topic:

I'd trade Oakland for South Auckland any day.

You Kiwi's don't know how good you got it.

[JJC]

The US needs to implement compulsory voting for any of this to succeed. The guys who are in power now have relied on the 30% factor - that is 60% of the 50% who actually turn up to vote.

Compulsory voting would end a lot of the fogeyism that haunts US Congress.

Too many ignorant people in this country for compulsory voting to have a good intended effect. All you will achieve is making Acorn's job easier in training these voters for whom to vote. A lot of people don't know who is their district representative in Congress or in state politics.

[Mastermind]

Our form of democracy, a representative republic, is filled with flaws. It is ****e to graft and corruptions and it has this amazing open wound that lets the public raid the treasury...this may, one day result in dire consequences for our way of government.

That is not how the framers of the constitution designed the system.....the flaws we suffer most from today are generated almost entirely by super-constitutional ideas that have been leveraged into the system by politicians and selfish interests who managed to subvert our laws. This was done by reinventing language and definitions of existing language to make the constitutional limitations they sought to remove seem confused and obscure. Regardless, our democracy still pretty much functions...it has given us a degree of freedom to achieve that practically no other government in the world offered any citizens.

We may now find ourselves on the ropes and at the mercy of outrageous people who seem to have made the decision the republic is old fashioned and obsolete....ready to be rewoven into an abomination of their choosing.

This government, as it was originally designed, in my estimation, is bar none, the best way any persons could find themselves fairly represented and capable of making their ideas heard by the government that they must live under. I believe that, in spite of the flaws and the damage our Constitutional roots have suffered over the two centuries we have been in existence. To me, there is just nothing I would rather try.

[Ordie]

Our form of democracy, a representative republic, is filled with flaws. It is ****e to graft and corruptions and it has this amazing open wound that lets the public raid the treasury...this may, one day result in dire consequences for our way of government.

That is not how the framers of the constitution designed the system.....the flaws we suffer most from today are generated almost entirely by super-constitutional ideas that have been leveraged into the system by politicians and selfish interests who managed to subvert our laws. This was done by reinventing language and definitions of existing language to make the constitutional limitations they sought to remove seem confused and obscure. Regardless, our democracy still pretty much functions...it has given us a degree of freedom to achieve that practically no other government in the world offered any citizens.

We may now find ourselves on the ropes and at the mercy of outrageous people who seem to have made the decision the republic is old fashioned and obsolete....ready to be rewoven into an abomination of their choosing.

This government, as it was originally designed, in my estimation, is bar none, the best way any persons could find themselves fairly represented and capable of making their ideas heard by the government that they must live under. I believe that, in spite of the flaws and the damage our Constitutional roots have suffered over the two centuries we have been in existence. To me, there is just nothing I would rather try.

Intresting points.

One thing that is unique about our system is that the smaller states (population wise) still have equal influence as compared to the more populated states through the Senate.

Unfortunately, sometimes at the expense of major cities where urban issues take a back seat to farm subsidies on Capitol Hill.

[Mastermind]

^^Yes, that has been a problem. But, that might be getting offset by corporate farms that now have enough cash to influence political decisions.

As demographics change, it has been my experience, where on place is squeezed, the other place bulges. The effects of demographic changes are not always equal, and not always fair and not always good for the Republic...but, it all seems to come out in the long run. Graft and corruption is caught just enough to act as a deterrnt, the people generally remain healthy, happy, just affluent enough to keep things going.

It is when one political party becomes overblown over another as we are currently experiencing we get these political "Tsunamis" that shift the winds of politics too far to one extreme or the other that seems to cause the most damage. The Republic is most healthy when both parties are about equally empowered and the supreme Court is well balanced.

I fear the current situation will become one of the most destructive in history...and that even takes in consideration the era just before the Civil War.

[BloodyTalon]

The US needs to implement compulsory voting for any of this to succeed. The guys who are in power now have relied on the 30% factor - that is 60% of the 50% who actually turn up to vote.

Compulsory voting would end a lot of the fogeyism that haunts US Congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyF-p5c7OLg

[Mastermind]

Yeah...that's what we need, Jack booted thugs rounding up people and forcing them to get to the polls...especially the people they think will vote the way they want them to.

Great Idea!

[DaveDash]

Do those protests turn violent? We have many protests, last one was 2-5 thousand people walking over the bridge protesting for a walkway, no violence no crack down o the instability.

Maori protests were for Waitangi day as for Passports, that was a scam targeting overstayers, you know people desperate to stay.

They don't have to be violent for the country to exhibit instability. The fact there are mass protests over the fact they didn't get enough fore-shore means our country is not as stable as say, Sweden.

I also believe not so long ago there was an SAS raid on a suspected group wanting to overthrow the government.

There is racial tension in NZ whether or not YOU want to admit it. Ive seen it. That does NOT make us one of the most "stable countries" in the world.

Doing better how and why?

Standard of living was much higher in those days than it is now. I think the median average New Zealand income is now a pathetic $28,000.

Ineffective police force more concerned with ticketing? Sounds like the crap disgunted drunk drivers and speeders spout off after being caught.

I have had one speeding infringement my entire life. Where do you live? Do you live anywhere near a city? Auckland? There is a serious amount of violent crime that goes on that is just swept under the carpet because the police are so poorly resourced they can't deal with it. Small crime? Forget about it EVER getting attention from the police.Yet when I used to live there I would quite often see up to 4 cop cars sitting around on mission bay rd with their laser radars waiting for pop people for speeding (I dont recall ever seeing an accidental on that part of road either).

Green energy? whats wrong with that, we have ample resources of renewable energy, as well as helps hitting our carbon targets.

No we do not. We have plenty of rain but our largest city has to go on water restrictions ever year because of our ridiculous reliance on Hydro-Electric dams (which are underfunded and many of them in danger of disaster at any moment btw, my brother used to work on a lot of them).

Not to mention, those Hydro-Dams destroy ecostructures without hundreds of KMs. Our nuclear free policy is outdated and needs to be reviewed, but because of ridiculous MMP and the Greens getting a much larger say in government, we will end up at an energy crisis point before anything is done about it.

The previous system did not represent the voting base, a third party could get 15% of the vote and no seat thus no voice at all. System we have no far better represents the voting base than the old system ever did.

New Zealand was NOT a two party system before MMP. Where do you get this?

White males in NZ having less rights than anyone else is just utter BS, and im a white male.

Do you get paid to go to school? Do you get to fill quotas for certian jobs? Do you get different university pass rates(for DOCTORS even!)? Do you get default custody of children? Do you get.. do you get... do you get... etc etc

The answer is no, you don't.