Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[happyslapper]

The E-2 and V-22 were actively assessed for the MASC requirement. Presumably the E-2 is now well and truly back on the cards. The V-22 was effectively dropped even when we were looking at a STOVL set-up, so there's zero chance of it being reconsidered now.

[danim]

Hi Jonas
I had the Buccaner on my mind and completly forgot about it being a phantom

SDL the E2c was considered as happyslapper states for the MASC but was deemed to be inappropriate for ops so was dropped since it was decided to go for the stol carrier. However there is still talks of what the RN could use as a AEW aircraft since we don't have the nimrod and the sea kings are on their way out the E2C may be reconsidered althought there is more chance of the Merlin being configured for AEW than the purchase of the E2C's

[SDL]

Sorry guys, i meant the V-22, i just took too long in typing, then didn't notice the extra post. Thanks for the answers Happy & danim

[jonas]

If you would like to look at the following link,in particular questions Q70 to Q80 might be of some interest. Although they are typical poiticians answers,they are at least first hand and not from a press release. :-

www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/defence_committee.cfm - 31k - cached - related

Please look under :-

General evidence session with the Secretary of state - uncorrected evidence - 8 December 2011 09 December 2011

[SDL]

Here is the segment in question

Q70Thomas Docherty: On the issue of aircraft carriers, by what date do you expect to have fully operational aircraft carriers with fast jet aircraft on them?
Mr Hammond: 2020-around 2020.
Q71 Thomas Docherty: That was two different answers, with due respect.
Mr Hammond: Well, around 2020. At this stage in the maturity of the programme, to say whether it would be late 2019 or early 2021 is too fine-grained, but 2020 is the central date we are shooting for and I would expect to achieve that or something very close to it.
Q72 Thomas Docherty: I am sure you have now had the opportunity to read the Select Committee’s report.
Mr Hammond: I did read it, yes. Well, I looked at the summary.
Q73 Thomas Docherty: Okay-again, not quite the same thing.
Mr Hammond: No, not quite the same thing.
Q74 Thomas Docherty: Paragraph 126 talks about the challenges on the regeneration of aircraft carrier capability, which I am sure you will be briefed on. Spinning back up the carrier is a formidable capability challenge both on the aircrew side and on the deck side. Can you therefore update the Committee on the progress that the Ministry of Defence is making on the regeneration of that capability?
Mr Hammond: Yes. I am not into the minute detail of it, but my understanding is that we have a clear agreement with the United States Navy in terms of training personnel. This will be by way of personnel being embedded for long periods, over the period between now and the coming into operation of the carriers, to acquire deep skills in deck operations and in flying operations. I think I am right in saying that the first UK personnel are already deployed-somebody might tell me if that is right.
Q75 Thomas Docherty: We have three pilots currently.
Mr Hammond: Okay-there you are. I had the opportunity to talk to the US Secretary of the Navy when he was in London a couple of weeks ago, and he assured me that the US is fully committed to co-operating with us on this programme, is delighted that we are reacquiring carrier capability and will do everything that is necessary to support us in regenerating this capability.
By the way, I should perhaps say that I had the opportunity to talk to the Chinese naval attaché last night at the Defence Council reception. He faces a rather different challenge. He has an aircraft carrier the skills for which he has to learn from scratch, without the support of the United States or any other partner, and he told me that that is really a major challenge. We are very lucky that we have an ally who is prepared to support us in this way.
Q76 Thomas Docherty: Just as an aside-I had not planned to raise this-can you confirm that we have no intention of selling to the Chinese Ark Royal or Illustrious? There has been some media speculation.
Mr Hammond: I certainly have no intention of selling to the Chinese Ark Royal or Illustrious, and nobody has suggested it to me.
Q77 Thomas Docherty: Okay, fine. One of the things that the Committee asked for was regular updates on the regeneration of capability. Are you in a position to guarantee that you will give regular written updates to this Committee as progress is made?
Mr Hammond: Unless there are any security reasons why I cannot, I am happy to do so, and I cannot imagine that there would be.
Q78 Thomas Docherty: Finally, on the issue of the fast jet that will be flying off the Prince of Wales or the Queen Elizabeth-hopefully both-are you convinced that the F-35C offers the best value for money over, for example, the F-35B or indeed a version of the F-18?
Mr Hammond: I believe so, but you will appreciate that I am probably not yet in a position to give an unqualified answer to that question. It is going to take me a little longer to fully understand all the issues around the capabilities of the different aircraft and the through-life costs of the different aircraft types.
Q79 Thomas Docherty: That strikes me as meaning that you are currently studying this question. Am I right in assuming that?
Mr Hammond: "Currently studying" would be a little ambitious, but I have it on my very long list of things that I need to look at and understand fully. There are a large number of very important and very complex sub-projects in the defence agenda. The way that I am trying to deal with this, on a systematic and manageable basis, is to get the people who are the experts to come in and brief me on a fairly detailed basis, so that I can acquire in an hour or two what would have been 17 or 18 months-worth of build-up of understanding had I been in this job from the beginning of the Government. It is not a process that I have started in any detail yet, but it is something that is high on my list of things to do.
Q80 Penny Mordaunt: You are still very new to the job but I would be interested to get your views on how you see the capability, once regenerated, working in practice. Much has been made of that 10-year gap in the capability but, once we have it, we will still potentially have mini-gaps because we only have one operational carrier. What is your understanding of how we will ensure that we have this very important capability when we need it?
Mr Hammond: First, I should say that no decision has been made about what will be done with the second carrier yet, so that will be a decision that has to be made in a future period against a future SDSR backdrop. The carrier force that we will be generating will give us a capability to operate on our own-a formidable capability to operate on our own-but because of the interoperability that we will gain, it will also enable us to operate as a fully integrated, functional part of a US carrier task group or, in different circumstances, to operate alongside the French. There will be options around how we deploy the carrier, and I would expect that we will adopt different postures at different times. We will want to ensure that we have fully exercised the option of a fully integrated level of operation with the US carrier fleet. We will also want to ensure that we build up and maintain the ability to deploy on a solo operation should we find the need to do so.

[jonas]

SDL,
I particularly did not post the section as it was so long,that is why I gave the link.

[happyslapper]

What strikes me most is how apparently clueless Hammond is.

[SDL]

Sorry Jonas, i had a bit of difficulty finding the segment, so i thought posting it all might help.... didn't mean to step on any toes.

He does seem a bit unknowing... though that could just be his way of dealing with the press, by seeming to be more of an idiot than they think he is.

[jonas]

Come on people give him a chance,how long has he been in office.

[happyslapper]

Aye, and yet only in politics can you get the top job in a business you know sod-all about!

[SDL]

As i said, it could just be his smokescreen to the media.... i can't believe someone would get such an important job if they knew nothing about it.

[jonas]

Aye, and yet only in politics can you get the top job in a business you know sod-all about!

Well that could equally apply to the whole of the Houses of Parliament.

Also perhaps you forget people like the wonderfull personages of Des Browne and the equall rubbish Geoff Hoon.

[serge 750]

as does a Royal Navy E2C

Royal Navy E2C Hawkeye by danim007, on Flickr

Now that looks more like it !

[SDL]

Well that could equally apply to the whole of the Houses of Parliament.

Also perhaps you forget people like the wonderfull personages of Des Browne and the equall rubbish Geoff Hoon.

can we make it illegal to mention those names here? lol. Seriously.... ANYONE is better than that last rabble....

[cockneyjock1974]

The F18 has been discussed at the MOD, although a year and half ago, but the following article demonstrates that it has been seriously considered.

@Jonas your not being bullish at all, I respect your opinion completely, my comments and I think I wasn't very concise to be honest were meant to be "if the F35 was cancelled" However you are right there is a political significance to the article I wonder if our American posters can update us on their take on it? What I will say is that I have seen comments that the USN are rubbing their hands together on us getting the carriers into service, I think they see them as an extension of their own fleet possibly!

PS i'm posting this purely to demonstrate that the F18 has been considered and nothing else, the following is from the Sunday Times:-

Navy jet switch to save £10bn Published: 1 August 2010 The Joint Strike Fighters, costing £100m each (HO/AFP/***** Images) The Royal Navy is set to save £10 billion on the defence budget by dropping plans to buy a fleet of fighter jets costing £100m each for its new aircraft carriers. It is expected to swap an order for 138 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) for a version of a cheaper aircraft currently flown off US carriers, the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet. The cost-saving move was considered at a meeting last weekend between Liam Fox, the defence secretary, and services chiefs to discuss cuts. “JSF is an unbelievably expensive programme,” said a senior defence source. “It makes no sense at all in the current climate, and even if we continued with it we cannot afford the aircraft we said we would buy.” The JSF, built by Lockheed Martin, Boeing’s main American rival, would have been the most expensive single project in the defence budget, with costs already put at £13.8 billion and rising. The aircraft were set to replace Harrier jump jets flown by the RAF and Navy.