Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[exdabtoe]

Someone's been spending too much time at the opium pipe. No way on God's green earth will F-35 production ever remotely come close to 100 aircraft per month. Even at the height of the Cold War F-16 production didn't approach a third of that

According to BAE, who are apparently building the tail sections, their maximum production will increase to 200 F-35 units per year

[SDL]

Two new images on the ACA site...

Second bow section of HMS Prince of Wales

There is also a shot of the..

upper bow sections of HMS Queen Elizabeth

But the image isn't properly coming up

[Pymes75]

According to BAE, who are apparently building the tail sections, their maximum production will increase to 200 F-35 units per year

That will be all types: 100x Dave A + 50x Dave B + 50x Dave C. Lockheed Martin have always stated that maxim production will be approx 1x a/c per day...

[cockneyjock1974]

Well that was an experience and a half, I pulled up to the Cammell Laird main entrance from the main road and standing right above me was CB02 and she was absoloutely cracking looking, workers working all over her.

So I started snapping away then the main security barrier opens and a security guard walks up to the car and I thought oh s**t!! at the very least I'm going to get my reg taken and a complete bo*****ing. So the guy says very politely "can I help you"? So I start going on about how I'm a big fan of the project and I'm looking forward to seeing her up at Rosyth this year etc and how much I'm looking forward to seeing the complete structure.
I will never forget his reply, in broad Liverpudlian he just looked at me and said, "I hope it fookin fits like" and walked away!!! I couldn't believe it! I was laughing all the way back to the hotel.

Anyway one relieved CJ later lol, got some good snaps, you can get so much closer here than u can Rosyth in fact you can see QE as soon as you come out the mersey tunnel. I will put them on tomorrow or Monday chaps.

[SDL]

LMAO!!!! Looking forward to those photos CJ

[cockneyjock1974]

LMAO!!!! Looking forward to those photos CJ

Cheers SDL lol, I've had probs expanding that ACA pic as well by the way.

[Liger30]

Look forwards to the photos, CJ! I envy you a lot for having the chance of looking at her up close.

I think he meant 50 per year (each type). Easy typo to make...

Yes, it's definitely per year, sorry. Wrote the comment in a hurry. The US DoD has also made it clear that the 50 Navy Department's F35s per year to be delivered from 2018 onwards will be equally split, 25 B and 25C, at least in 2018.

2018 should thus see an US order for:

60 A (to rise to 80 per year by 2021)
25 B
25 C

They have also released updated expected recurring flyaway cost of the full-rate production airframes (in 2012 dollars):

78.8 USD million x F35A
106 USD million x F35B
87 USD million x F35C

If these prices are anywhere near reliable and representative of the cost to be paid by the MOD, 50 F35C would cost some 2718 million pounds [of course, spare engines, spares and all the rest are not included], while an equal number of F35B would come at 3312.5 million pounds. Again, spares not included, and we know that the B-variant spare engines are expensive like hell, so the total difference is likely to be greater still.
That is a difference of 594.5 million pounds, anyway, to start with, and it is enough to buy an EMALS/AAG set and pay for part of the installation work. It does not cover all of the conversion's cost, (458 + 400 million pounds according to the US Navy-sponsorised estimates).

At best, when spares are factored in, the conversion of ONE carrier might be covered. At best.
But we need two.

The choice remains difficult, and the future of the second CVF not at all safe.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120331/DEFREG02/303310001/Pentagon-Confident-F-35-Buy-Schedule?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Briani]

That will be all types: 100x Dave A + 50x Dave B + 50x Dave C. Lockheed Martin have always stated that maxim production will be approx 1x a/c per day...

BAE Systems has recently opened a new £150m facility to increase US F-35 jet fuselage production by extending its site in Samlesbury, Lancashire.


The new section enables workers to produce a fuselage every day compared with the current one-a-week rate.

So in theory around 300 a year could be built.

[Jdam1]

I think the choice is easy go for the C and covert one carrier as planned and beat the money for the 2nd out of the treasury, the simple fact is the UK has done defence on the cheap for decades now and at some point we were always going to have to pay for it be it in money or lives.

The real problem is getting the money for them with all the political back stabbing in fighting between the services and the press that just seem to have it in for these carriers, it will be very hard to get the support the carrier’s need, just look at the recent articles and the costs of 1.8 billion, that’s the sort of thing the carriers are battling against.

[serge 750]

hi guys

Could the £1.8bn be for the cost of converting queenie & the associated delay to pow? interesting costs of the F35 models liger,

Hi cj i hope the pm reply gets through to you mate...

[Geoff_B]

Look forwards to the photos, CJ! I envy you a lot for having the chance of looking at her up close.



Yes, it's definitely per year, sorry. Wrote the comment in a hurry. The US DoD has also made it clear that the 50 Navy Department's F35s per year to be delivered from 2018 onwards will be equally split, 25 B and 25C, at least in 2018.

2018 should thus see an US order for:

60 A (to rise to 80 per year by 2021)
25 B
25 C

They have also released updated expected recurring flyaway cost of the full-rate production airframes (in 2012 dollars):

78.8 USD million x F35A
106 USD million x F35B
87 USD million x F35C

If these prices are anywhere near reliable and representative of the cost to be paid by the MOD, 50 F35C would cost some 2718 million pounds [of course, spare engines, spares and all the rest are not included], while an equal number of F35B would come at 3312.5 million pounds. Again, spares not included, and we know that the B-variant spare engines are expensive like hell, so the total difference is likely to be greater still.
That is a difference of 594.5 million pounds, anyway, to start with, and it is enough to buy an EMALS/AAG set and pay for part of the installation work. It does not cover all of the conversion's cost, (458 + 400 million pounds according to the US Navy-sponsorised estimates).

At best, when spares are factored in, the conversion of ONE carrier might be covered. At best.
But we need two.

The choice remains difficult, and the future of the second CVF not at all safe.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Hi Leiger

You also need to take into account that you will need more B variant to match the C, with the shorter range, smaller load and more hardware and software to go wrong the servicability rates will also be lower, which will also have a knock on effect to through life costs.

[cockneyjock1974]

hi guys

Could the £1.8bn be for the cost of converting queenie & the associated delay to pow? interesting costs of the F35 models liger,

Hi cj i hope the pm reply gets through to you mate...

Got it mate cheers

Hi Geoff B how's the modelling going?

[Jdam1]

hi guys

Could the £1.8bn be for the cost of converting queenie & the associated delay to pow? interesting costs of the F35 models liger,

Hi cj i hope the pm reply gets through to you mate...

I said this at the start when all those article 1st appeared, now that the US navy has came out and said it will cost 850 mill for one that seems more and more likely, I think it was an attempt by someone to drill up some negative publicity by not out right lying but by miscommunication some facts and like always the papers didn’t bother to check it and just run with it, the government were happy to let it run as it might help bring down the costs of the emals (assuming there that smart) and it look like it may have worked.

[Jdam1]

Cameron orders independent review into F-35 decision

Prime Minister David Cameron has asked the UK Treasury to conduct an independent assessment of the costs associated with converting one of the two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers to operate the F-35C: the carrier variant (CV) of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/...annel=business

[radczack]

Cameron orders independent review into F-35 decision

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/...annel=business

Good, I hope the numbers they come up with match the numbers the Americans gave about EMALs.