Reply With QuoteWell I'll boil it down to simple terms; Our ships are bigger and there's twice as many of them!Originally Posted by gagetman100
When I got in last night I noticed that all the CB02 units are now at the back of the dry dock, none are now down by the LB05 units in front of the shed. There is also a scaffolding tower now next to UB01 and a third of her protective sheeting has been removed. They seem to be really gearing up now, I think we are possibly in for another exciting week folks
Well I'll boil it down to simple terms; Our ships are bigger and there's twice as many of them!
Cheers for the update CJ, going to be intersesting to see what gets fitted first, although LB01 looks like it will be dropped into place by the end of the week that doesn't mean they will join it with LB02 at that point - but it would be a nice place to start joining up
It just dawned on me yesterday every other block is in the Red primer paint except for BL01 which is in the Grey i wonder why as they had to join the the two sections of LBO1 in situ so must have repainted it after the welding !.
Its too early to tell how they will compare, a QEC with a proper airgroup will be a potent unit, hopefully the Govt will look to running 18 aircraft carrier squadrons as standard and order sufficeint Aircraft to allow both carriers to be opertaional should the need arise. With two carriers available we have the greater surge than a single CdG, and with one in reserve we at least have one operational at all times, where as the CdG will be down for refits especially refuelling. i don't think the nuclear/conventional fuel issue is that great as its likely the QEC will switch to a sustainable bio-fuel form a fossil fuel, and whilst costly to operate on a day by day basis their is not the residual issue of dealing with the radioactivity (Note the laid up Resolution class in the Rosyth basin still awaiting safe disposal when we are already looking to replace their replacements !).Originally Posted by gagetman100
So how do you think the QE class carrier will compare to the french carrier Charles de Gaulle
The key aspect will be if the french ever build thier PA2 and if it will complement CdG or as some have predicited replace it !!!, with 2 conventional carriers with Rafale then the French should be able to counter the availability issues that dog the single CdG.
I'll put it in real terms, ours won't have to leave a war zone half way through a battle due to stretching its maintenance schedule to the limit.
Im not saying that in a derisory way the CDG did a sterling job whilst in the Libyan theatre, it's sortie rates were the best of all the allies and demonstrated the effectiveness of sea borne aviation very well indeed.
On a vessel by vessel basis (i.e. leaving out the fact that there'll be two CVFs), my take is this:
1. Charles de Gaulle is a mini-Nimitz Class CVN - Nuclear powered, Cats/Traps, proper Fleet AEW with E-2Cs, and comprehensive suite of defensive weapons.
2. Queen Elizabeth class will be a supersized-America Class LHA - IEP with GT and DGs, no-Cats/Traps, no fixed-wing AEW, most likely to regularly embark Attack and Support Helicopters (and an EMF) in addition to a dozen or so F-35Bs!
Make of that what you will...
Next big event is LB01 being lowered into the dock. It seems the lift will take place Friday, can't wait!
100% On your wavelength. The main advantage of STOVL is the ability to maintain air-ops in higher sea states - that is all.
It could be argued that the two types of carrier indicate the respective strategic views of France and the UK.
A fully equipped nuclear carrier with indegenous strike fighters and very effective fleet AEW makes the statement that the nation continues to sees itself as a global power that can lead operations in response to global crisis.
A large and powerful LHA that can field a mix of strike fighters, attack and support helicopters offers precisely the sort of flexility that ensures your navy will always be useful to a US led operation.
I personally lament the fact that we came very close to fielding the former, whilst also accepting that the latter is likely to prove tactically more useful for the types of operation we are mostly likely to be engaged in given the current strategic situation.
Supporting NATO's Northern Flank is the U.K.'s primary concern. The G-I-UK Gap and Norway. Still a cold war mind set yet having the flexibility for out of area ops.
When HMS Ocean's time is up I would like to see her replaced with a proper LHD similar to the USS America (even licence built).
This is all a bit of 'chest beating' nonsense though. If France truly thought itself as that it wouldn't have an underpowered nuclear carrier available only half the time and only a couple of horizon destroyers. In reality, both countries find themselves where they are because of circumstance and reducing budgets. France isn't going to be taking on Iran or China on its own anymore than the UK is.
1. The French never intended to have just one carrier. The French government has been forced to make cuts like all European nations in order to fund their bulging welfare costs.
2. Likewise the Horizons. The MN originally intended to build four but have now had to convert a couple of FREMMs to the AAW role instead.
3. I never said France intends to take on China or Iran - the US has no intension of taking them on either! But that doesn't make the US any less a global power, either! Howeve, being able to lead an operation such as Odyssey Dawn does make you a major power, and whilst the coalition was dependant on US assistance, there is no question that France took a large chunk of the credit for politically leading the coalition.
So far we haven't much discussion on the effectiveness of the Neptune stabilisers in higher sea states, what do we know?
Did the Invincible Class have Neptune stabilisers ? Sea Harriers were still able to maintain a CAP circa 1982 because despite a pitching and rolling deck because they could 'stop' then 'land.'
Not gonna happen. Under current planning Ocean's replacement is whichever of the two QEs is 'on call at the time. And why is everyone so obsessed with putting a dock into the back of an LPH? Ocean has a stern ramp already, without having to fill the back of the ship with seawater. You can only use the dock when you are stationary (ie a sitting duck), so it is of secondary consideration. Ocean's job is to land the first wave of Marines by chopper (with back up from her four LCVPs if necessary). They will secure the beach head so that the second wave troops and the heavy equipment can be landed from LPDs and LSDs. Putting a floodable dock into a ship the size of Ocean eats up about a fifth of her internal volume, space that is currently needed to support her troops and their gear as well as her air group. To preserve the existing capability of the ship you's have to design a larger ship to compensate or accept less troops going ashore in the first wave. The CVFs do not have and will never have a floodabe dock, so the Capability provided currently by Ocean will remain effectively unchanged when it is passed to the QEC. The LPDs and LSDs in service can last into the 2030s if need be so don't hold your breath for an LHD in RN colours anytime soon...
Posting Permissions
