Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[Geoff_B]

Hi guys

Since when have politicians been clear! he he

I do get the impression that they realise there is a major capability gap with no fixed wing strike from carriers so i do hope thet when they get the f35 that they concentrate on carrier strike as a priority!

They won't its and RAF aircraft afterall !!!, they will ensure their own squadron is up and running at full strength before the NSW, so its still going to be 2023 before the QEC will have a full dedicated air group of F-35B's. The cover the capability gap by having a token number of RN F-35s and say they can top up with RAF unit as required.

[Geoff_B]

Yes,I found his remark rather confusing as one moment he said 'Maingate decision next year on numbers' and in the next breath 'no final numbers'. So as you say it must be for the initial batch, as he did also say that the procurement would be incremental. Could have been a bit clearer on that.

Basically it falls down to they have only budgeted for X amount (in £ 000's ) for the F-35 JCA upto 2020-23 (Ordered-Delivered), they can't say yet how many actual aircraft that will be as they don't have a definative price yet from LM they can use as a basis, next year they should get a production price, that will then indicate how many aircraft they can afford and how many they intend to order in the initial order. 2015 SDSR will then use those figures along with new price projections from LM, coupled with the requirements from the service chiefs to determine how many we are looking to get or need for future force 2020, the confirmed status of the 2nd carrier may well be reflected in the numbers so that at least a 2nd Naval Squadron is required in addition to the mixed force swing role squadron.

By 2020 SDSR they will have one Carrier in service and about to receive its inital aircraft with a 2nd carrier working up (although how it will be utilised awaits the 2015 SDSR), and by this time they will know the procurement cost of the F-35B along with its running costs, capabilities and servicability. They will also have a clear idea of our UCAV capability and of course what the current and predicted global situation is like both socially and economically. Thats when they will address the overall F-35B requirement of how many aircraft are needed and how they will be utilised.

[9166]

Which makes the F35A for the RAF all the more attractive. Exact prices are as you say unknown but from what's been speculated you get around 60 "A" for the same price as 50 "B". Would not be at all surprised to see a mixed fleet some time in the future 50 B and 60 A.

Enough for three squadrons of each type, with the numbers to surge on QE/PoW if required.

[cockneyjock1974]

My take on it is that eventually they would like 2 NSW's, one permanently based on each carrier and in times of surge they can transfer the other NSW accross to the operational carrier, or if required use two carriers and top up with RAF. This would still leave plenty room for helicopters.

I could be wrong but these ministers are now openly saying 2 carriers and the language they keep using is the F35 for our new carriers. Not the F35 for the RN and RAF, it's all geared towards flying off the QEC's.

[jonas]

Which makes the F35A for the RAF all the more attractive. Exact prices are as you say unknown but from what's been speculated you get around 60 "A" for the same price as 50 "B". Would not be at all surprised to see a mixed fleet some time in the future 50 B and 60 A.

Enough for three squadrons of each type, with the numbers to surge on QE/PoW if required.

The whole idea of buying the 'B' is for the RAF to do just that (surge with its aircraft in times of crisis) how do they do that if they have the 'A' model.

[Grimbob]

The whole idea of buying the 'B' is for the RAF to do just that (surge with its aircraft in times of crisis) how do they do that if they have the 'A' model.

Not only that, but i would give us the ability to "rotate" the aircraft and keep the life of the aircraft about the same. Carrier landing take more out of an aircraft compared to normal landing on a runway where you can use a conventional landing.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

CB02c due to be lifted this weekend. I would imagine new pictures may be available Tuesday/Wednesday after that.


P.s The 'A' variant of the F35 would be good for an airforce only airframe, but not suitable for carrier operations, no arrestor hook for catching on an angled deck and no STOVL capabilities as no lift fan and no abilities to hover!


Thanks

[cyrilranch]

CB02c due to be lifted this weekend. I would imagine new pictures may be available Tuesday/Wednesday after that.


P.s The 'A' variant of the F35 would be good for an airforce only airframe, but not suitable for carrier operations, no arrestor hook for catching on an angled deck and no STOVL capabilities as no lift fan and no abilities to hover!


Thanks

as to updates Portsmouth cam has gone a bit quite at present ,they were updating nearly every 7 days

as to the RAF getting "A"'s
my choice would be 4 sqn's of "B"'s(2 RN,2 RAF) for the dumped Harriers and the "A"'s replacing the Tornadoes.
this way everyone is happy .
we get 2 sqn's for the carrier's with RAF "B" for surge and later they get the cheaper "A" better range for deep strike("C" is better for this but is more expensive)

[9166]

Not only that, but i would give us the ability to "rotate" the aircraft and keep the life of the aircraft about the same. Carrier landing take more out of an aircraft compared to normal landing on a runway where you can use a conventional landing.

The B does not have that carrier landing problem as its VL or SRVL.

[9166]

as to updates Portsmouth cam has gone a bit quite at present ,they were updating nearly every 7 days

as to the RAF getting "A"'s
my choice would be 4 sqn's of "B"'s(2 RN,2 RAF) for the dumped Harriers and the "A"'s replacing the Tornadoes.
this way everyone is happy .
we get 2 sqn's for the carrier's with RAF "B" for surge and later they get the cheaper "A" better range for deep strike("C" is better for this but is more expensive)

Yes the only way to go is a mixed buy of A and B, but would prefer all FAA squadrons for CVF.

[cockneyjock1974]

I'm afraid it has to be the B now that we're not going Catobar, all future wars will be expeditionary in nature. The UK will never take on a 1st world power on its own again and to be fair apart from Malaya, the Falklands and some minor wars such as Aden, Borneo etc, we have always been in coalitions since Napoleonic times.

The smart money is 100 if possible F35B's and for the RAF deep strike aka FOAS, it has to be Taranis or whatever the joint French UCAV project ends up being called.

So the Navy gets what it wants a modest rebirth of FAA fixed wing capability. The RAF get Typhoon AA with secondary ground attack ability. F35B for manned 1st day of war multirole capability and Taranis, stealth long range deep strike with loitering ability.

If this is what happens then CJ be a happy bunny.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

I agree with the assumption that we will fight as a joint task force, save for any small conflicts as in Falklands et al, so I believe that we will in all likelihood get roughly 80-100 of the F35's. Will we get no where near the original number of 138, so brace yourselves for limited numbers.


In my opinion, we will have a split between the RN/RAF of the B, CJ called it right about Tar**** being deep strike if development continues apace, although I could see a complement of A's to augment Typhoons and take up the mantle once the Tornado has been phased out.


Should we obtain all that, then we can't really grumble, well we could but tell me how many more Armed Forces will have such a powerful punch in terms of tech and capability apart of our American friends?


One final thought, would we go EA-18 for EW capability, lets not forget the Australians don't have carriers and they have ordered them. Food for thought as they served well in Libya.


Thanks

[Briani]

I've sent an email to the ACA asking about the delivery date for the rear island.

Looking at the delivery time for the forward island on Pymes site as a guide it should be around March next year.There are of course lots of variables to take into account.

[Jdam1]

Briani I think the rear island will not be delivered till next year, the pics from flickr gives the impression the island still has a lot of work to be done, it could be the last bit of the carrier to be delivered.

[Geoff_B]

Briani I think the rear island will not be delivered till next year, the pics from flickr gives the impression the island still has a lot of work to be done, it could be the last bit of the carrier to be delivered.

Theres no rush for it either, i doubt we will see the fwd bridge shipped until the CB02 blocks have been fitted.