Reply With QuoteTo be fair they should be able to drop it Arfah, the Germans were allowed to rearm in the mid 50's I think it was. Here's an article on the JSDF's current status.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17175834
I seem to recall that Japan is dropping the 'Self Defence' and is/has making/made changes to their constitution to allow for peace keeping and to reflect the growing militancy of the PRC.
I could be mistaken ?
To be fair they should be able to drop it Arfah, the Germans were allowed to rearm in the mid 50's I think it was. Here's an article on the JSDF's current status.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17175834
Cheers C.J.
I'll get round to it later. I'm of for a walk around Hadleigh castle in a moment (The local area's been plagued with mountain bikers in jazzy sports attire)
The Japs also eased restrictions on arms exports late last year.No doubt one reason would be to raise funds for their defence budget which will probably be under as much strain as our own.Originally Posted by Arfah
Hi guys
I think maybe the japanese will eventualy operate dave B on there big new through deck destroyers (he he) much like we operated the invicible class & sea harriers,i would actually like to see that,but it will proberly be a long term process due to the political side of things,i do think the carriers look good bit like the italian cavour.
ps hi new members,i hope you find this forum as good as i have
Thnx serge you are probably correct in your thoughts that eventually Japan will order the B version of the JSF but they currently have gone for the A. Japans cncern is some disputed Islands in the east china sea, the idea of their carriers is that they can reinforce them quickly if there is any sign of china occupying them. So I see their carriers more operating as a LPH with marines on board.
Thank you Serge and thanx again for the warm welcome guys.
It's an interesting article CJ highlighting the Japanese self defence initiative, and for the US to step in if the self defence force is overwhelmed or unable to deal with particular threats at some point in the future. But with the current economic state the world finds itself in at the moment (except China of course), could it be possible the US may be hard pressed to honour any agreement with the Japanese if their own defence budget is slashed like our own????
By the way, does anyone have anymore info, pics, graphics on the HMWHS?? I know its integrated into the deep magazine complex within the ship, but just wondered if there were any demonstrations out there that might give a inclination of how it will work ........
The Japanese are skirting around the issue of having actual carriers for both the political and diplomatic reasons. The USN politically is doing the same thing by calling the Zumwalts' destroyers still. The Japanese are nervously looking at China and realizing that they need to regenerate their large ship manufacturing skills.
It would seem to be very much with the blessing of the US.
There's a vid on you tube, the Thales CVF one, that's got about 10 seconds of footage of the units, gives nothing away though and seems a bit slow if you ask me. However better than using our imaginationsBy the way, does anyone have anymore info, pics, graphics on the HMWHS?? I know its integrated into the deep magazine complex within the ship, but just wondered if there were any demonstrations out there that might give a inclination of how it will work ........
Enjoy the barges Arfah
Came across this illustration comparing the 22DDH with other carriers.
Like Bama said it's one hell of a 'destroyer'.
According to CJ's BBC article, public opinion of the JSDF is rather high. That, coupled with China's rising might in the West Pacific and the JSDF's increasing presence on the world stage, (Iraq in 2004, Indian Ocean Counter-Piracy including a new base in Djibouti) could lead to Japan increasing it's military power and defence spending. Something the US would only encourage with their shifting focus to the Pacific. Damn, need to relate to CVF... Also would encourage us to retain both the QE and POW. Phew
By the way, does anyone have anymore info, pics, graphics on the HMWHS?? I know its integrated into the deep magazine complex within the ship, but just wondered if there were any demonstrations out there that might give a inclination of how it will work ........
I found this on the net
Aircraft Carrier Weapons Handling System Achieves Milestone
(December 11, 2009) -- An important milestone has been reached with the delivery of the first component of the Highly Mechanised Weapons Handling System (HMWHS), being designed and built by Babcock for the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers.
The first pair of hydraulically operated magazine lift doors, each measuring 12 metres wide by 3 metres high and weighing 6000 kg, have now been delivered for integration. These will be fitted within the deep magazine complex and are designed to operate automatically as part of the HMWHS. Delivery of the doors was required at this early stage in the build programme as their size and location within the ship means that the doors are an integral component of the vessel. The door insert is welded into the bulkhead of the ship.
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The QE class HMWHS provides mechanical handling facilities for moving palletised munitions around the deep magazine and weapon preparation areas, and a series of weapons lifts to connect the magazines, hangar, weapon preparation area and flight deck. This innovative solution to munitions handling represents the first maritime application of shore-based commercial warehousing processes using automated systems with all-electric control, adapted for safe transport and stowage of munitions in a warship environment. It is estimated to yield a 65% reduction in manpower required for what is traditionally a labour-intensive, time-consuming and potentially hazardous process, thereby helping to reduce through-life costs and adopt increased safety standards.
The magazine doors are designed to be watertight to 0.5 bar and A60 fire rated, and to operate within an ATEX directive Zone 2 hazardous environment, and can be removed from the assembly for the replacement of the seals. The design is Lloyd's Register approved.
The doors have undergone Factory Acceptance Testing to check the hydraulic components, open/close actuator and locks, and seals. The seals will undergo further water pressure testing after installation, during Harbour Acceptance Trials.
This is the first of many equipment and component deliveries which will take place over the next two years, relating to the various mechanical, electrical, hydraulic and pneumatic subsystems that make up the HMWHS. Electrical panels used to drive the 'moles' (on which the palletised munitions are moved) are being delivered this month (December), and further deep magazine doors will be delivered in January, February and April 2010 (each carrier having a total of four pairs of magazine doors).
Babcock surface ship and specialist systems director Matt Hatson comments: "After completion of the concept, assessment, and demonstration phases, and with manufacture now underway, it is good to see the first major element of equipment for the system being delivered to schedule, marking a significant milestone in the project. This delivery follows three years of combined design, development and integration effort, by Babcock, the door manufacturers, and the Aircraft Carrier Alliance."
Rod Steel, Aircraft Carrier Alliance Project Manager for the Design and Procurement of the HMWHS, said: "This is an important milestone for us, confirming that the project is progressing well and momentum is growing, whilst contributing a critical element of the ship build programme bang on schedule. Integration activities for the HMWHS will continue from the incorporation of these major structural items right up to the final system setting to work, test and commissioning, and this first delivery event is tangible proof that we are indeed well on track and together with our industrial partners working as a cohesive alliance team within the exciting and challenging major project that is the QE Class design and build."
Read more: http://www.asdnews.com/news-25010/Ai...#ixzz22iAcbtmq
And this
Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier weapons handling system achieves milestone
13:32 GMT, December 11, 2009 An important milestone has been reached with the delivery of the first component of the Highly Mechanised Weapons Handling System (HMWHS), being designed and built by Babcock for the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers.
The first pair of hydraulically operated magazine lift doors, each measuring 12 metres wide by 3 metres high and weighing 6000 kg, have now been delivered for integration. These will be fitted within the deep magazine complex and are designed to operate automatically as part of the HMWHS. Delivery of the doors was required at this early stage in the build programme as their size and location within the ship means that the doors are an integral component of the vessel. The door insert is welded into the bulkhead of the ship.
The QE class HMWHS provides mechanical handling facilities for moving palletised munitions around the deep magazine and weapon preparation areas, and a series of weapons lifts to connect the magazines, hangar, weapon preparation area and flight deck. This innovative solution to munitions handling represents the first maritime application of shore-based commercial warehousing processes using automated systems with all-electric control, adapted for safe transport and stowage of munitions in a warship environment. It is estimated to yield a 65% reduction in manpower required for what is traditionally a labour-intensive, time-consuming and potentially hazardous process, thereby helping to reduce through-life costs and adopt increased safety standards.
The magazine doors are designed to be watertight to 0.5 bar and A60 fire rated, and to operate within an ATEX directive Zone 2 hazardous environment, and can be removed from the assembly for the replacement of the seals. The design is Lloyd’s Register approved.
The doors have undergone Factory Acceptance Testing to check the hydraulic components, open/close actuator and locks, and seals. The seals will undergo further water pressure testing after installation, during Harbour Acceptance Trials.
This is the first of many equipment and component deliveries which will take place over the next two years, relating to the various mechanical, electrical, hydraulic and pneumatic subsystems that make up the HMWHS. Electrical panels used to drive the ‘moles’ (on which the palletised munitions are moved) are being delivered this month (December), and further deep magazine doors will be delivered in January, February and April 2010 (each carrier having a total of four pairs of magazine doors).
Babcock surface ship and specialist systems director Matt Hatson comments: “After completion of the concept, assessment, and demonstration phases, and with manufacture now underway, it is good to see the first major element of equipment for the system being delivered to schedule, marking a significant milestone in the project. This delivery follows three years of combined design, development and integration effort, by Babcock, the door manufacturers, and the Aircraft Carrier Alliance.”
Rod Steel, Aircraft Carrier Alliance Project Manager for the Design and Procurement of the HMWHS, said: “This is an important milestone for us, confirming that the project is progressing well and momentum is growing, whilst contributing a critical element of the ship build programme bang on schedule. Integration activities for the HMWHS will continue from the incorporation of these major structural items right up to the final system setting to work, test and commissioning, and this first delivery event is tangible proof that we are indeed well on track and together with our industrial partners working as a cohesive alliance team within the exciting and challenging major project that is the QE Class design and build.”
Background information
Babcock was originally engaged by the Aircraft Carrier Alliance to develop the HMWHS in 2003. The concept design was developed as part of the overall ship development, ensuring that the solution was capable of meeting the operational requirements of the ship, and technical compliance with MoD standards. Babcock was awarded the contract in 2008 covering final design, design integration with the shipyards, manufacturing, assembly, installation, test and commissioning. Babcock is the design authority for the technical solution, while Thales is the systems integrator and delegated design authority, taking responsibility for ensuring that the HMWHS fits within the overall ship design and meets stipulated requirements.
The HMWHS provides a flexible, point to point system with minimal footprint, enabling munitions to be delivered in bulk to the point of use at rates that could not be achieved by manual handling, and minimises manpower requirements. The system consists of a network of two versions of prime movers (moles) traversing forward and aft (longitudinal, version one) or port and starboard (athwartships, version two), each able to lift and move a payload to locations within its predefined area of travel. Overlapping at transfer positions allows moles to transfer payloads between each other, so payloads can be located anywhere within the magazine. Multiple stowage locations provide high levels of flexibility and redundancy. Discrete areas defined by the ship‘s design requirements are interlinked by a number of lifts, providing interconnection between the magazines and hangar, weapons preparation area, and flight deck.
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