Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[jonas]

If the "study examining all the changes required for F-35C Carrier Variant operations will conclude end of 2012" , then it is most unlikely that we will get any firm decisions until well into 2013. That is unless the study has fully costed the options, such as just convert PoW or convert both ships as part of the same contract or convert PoW and just buy the cats and traps for QE (with a view to fitting later), so that all that is required is a MoD recommendation to the Defence Management Board for a decision to be taken and announced. Time will tell.

This study has been ongoing ever since we decided to change to F35C,nothing new.

[Naval Oldie]

This study has been ongoing ever since we decided to change to F35C,nothing new.

Yes I appreciate that Jonas but of course what we are all interested in is the results and the decisions that follow on from the study.

I have just taken the following extract from the Royal Navy website -

"The next step in preparing Portsmouth as the home of the biggest warships ever built for the Royal Navy begins this week.
A specialist rig begins six weeks of drilling on Friday, sampling the sea bed in the harbour and in the Solent.
The tests will pave the way for major dredging work in a couple of years’ time allowing the 65,000-tonne HMS Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales to safely and easily enter harbour.
The two flagships are 10,000 tonnes heavier than the last traditional-style carriers to serve the Royal Navy – HMS Ark Royal and Eagle, which paid off in the 1970s – and much larger than any current warship based in Portsmouth.
The existing channel used by ships needs to be widened and deepened to accommodate the new carriers. The berths in the base itself need to be excavated and a suitable turning circle provided in the north of the harbour – the draught of the sisters will be 11 metres (36ft)."

Obviously these ships will be the largest ever that have served with the RN, but interestingly the battleships QUEEN ELIZABETH and VALIANT both drew 34.7ft (full load (36,565 tons)) and VANGUARD 35.7ft (full load (46,500 tons)) which is only a fraction less than the CVFs.

[jonas]

Parliamentary written answers 1st Feb.

Aircraft Carriers

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will place in the Library a copy of the Statement of Intent on Carrier Co-operation and Maritime Power Projection with the US; [91944]

(2) if he will estimate the cost of the operations with the US on training covered by the Statement of Intent on Carrier Co-operation and Maritime Power Projection in each year up to 2020; [91945]

1 Feb 2012 : Column 650W
(3) if he will estimate the cost of the number of personnel who will be assigned to training covered by the Statement of Intent on Carrier Co-operation and Maritime Power Projection; and what training they will receive. [91946]

Peter Luff: The Statement of Intent, jointly signed at Defence Secretary level on 5 January 2012, provides a high level framework for US/UK co-operation as the UK regenerates a carrier strike capability. Principal co-operative activities, including training, will be taken forward progressively through the working group structure established by the Statement of Intent and may, if necessary, be subject to separate and specific agreements. It is not possible at this early stage to provide estimates of costs that might arise from co-operative activities undertaken within the framework of the Statement of Intent.

The document will be placed in the Library of the House.

Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) pursuant to the answer of 12 January 2012, Official Report, column 416W, on aircraft carriers, whether his Department has conducted, or plans to conduct,investigations into the compatibility of advanced arresting gear with the Joint Combat Aircraft; and whether it has contributed, or intends to contribute, resources to investigations carried out by the US; [92453]

(2) on what date his Department was first made aware of compatibility issues in relation to the advanced arresting gear and the Joint Combat Aircraft. [92454]

Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence is aware of the F35C Arrestor Hook compatibility issues, which came to light during Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) testing in August 2011. Discoveries of this nature can only be expected during development of such complex technology and design solutions to the Arrestor Hook arrangements are already well advanced. These will be tested and proven as part of the ongoing JSF development test programme, in which the UK is fully engaged as a level one partner, with approximately 40 civilian and military personnel embedded across various US sites.

[jonas]

Parliamentary written answers 1st feb.
This is OT but still I feel relevent to this thread.

Military Aircraft

Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 22 March 2011, Official Report, column 947W, on military aircraft, when he expects to publish the findings of the capability investigation on maritime surveillance capability; and if he will make a statement. [92528]

1 Feb 2012 : Column 654W
Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence has completed its capability investigation into its long term requirements for maritime surveillance capability, but I am withholding the information as its disclosure would, or would be likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security of the armed forces.

[jonas]

The following link builds on 'Naval Oldie's' previous post. Yes I know they have posted pics of STOVL carriers.

http://navaltoday.com/2012/02/02/uk-...ture-carriers/

[uk supercarrier]

Id say we need an aircraft with the interoperability and surveillance capabilities which equal the yanks the E-2 is unsurpassable.(thanks for the link there jonas)

[welshmann]

The following link builds on 'Naval Oldie's' previous post. Yes I know they have posted pics of STOVL carriers.

http://navaltoday.com/2012/02/02/uk-...ture-carriers/

nice link mate.
love this qoute:“It’s hoped that harbour users and local residents will understand the relatively short-term inconvenience of the rig" i know he got to say it,but i dont think the locals wont be too pissed off.

cracking thread followed it for ages.

[jonas]

Id say we need an aircraft with the interoperability and surveillance capabilities which equal the yanks the E-2 is unsurpassable.(thanks for the link there jonas)

Agreed the latest Hawkeye is at the top of its game,fact is that we probably could not afford it as its cost is eye watering.
Perhaps a few older ex US models would be within our budget,and would no doubt do us very nicely. Here's hoping.

The fact is the question asked of Peter Luff was in regards to a replacement for the Nimrod MRA4 which was scrapped leaving us with no long range maritime patrol capability. This is not a job Hawkeye is designed for or can do.

The stupidy of it is that only a few months after MRA4 was scrapped with indecent haste,a committee was set up in the MOD headed by the RN to look into the replacement for it. It is obvious that they realised what a horrendous mistake they had made.

What has now transpired is that instead of the duty SSBN being able to leave Faslane,with the knowledge gleaned by Nimrod as to the whereabouts of any Russian SSN waiting to trail her,they now sail blind relying on their own sensors to pick up these vessels.

The rumour since MRA4 was scrapped is that the US P8 Poseidon is favourite,at a reported cost of £1bn for 5 aircraft.

Whether this comes to fruition in the current economic climate is anyones guess.

[C.Puffs]

Agreed the latest Hawkeye is at the top of its game,fact is that we probably could not afford it as its cost is eye watering.
Perhaps a few older ex US models would be within our budget,and would no doubt do us very nicely. Here's hoping.

The fact is the question asked of Peter Luff was in regards to a replacement for the Nimrod MRA4 which was scrapped leaving us with no long range maritime patrol capability. This is not a job Hawkeye is designed for or can do.

The stupidy of it is that only a few months after MRA4 was scrapped with indecent haste,a committee was set up in the MOD headed by the RN to look into the replacement for it. It is obvious that they realised what a horrendous mistake they had made.

What has now transpired is that instead of the duty SSBN being able to leave Faslane,with the knowledge gleaned by Nimrod as to the whereabouts of any Russian SSN waiting to trail her,they now sail blind relying on their own sensors to pick up these vessels.

The rumour since MRA4 was scrapped is that the US P8 Poseidon is favourite,at a reported cost of £1bn for 5 aircraft.

Whether this comes to fruition in the current economic climate is anyones guess.

Too bad the USN got rid of the S-3 Vikings.

[CarrierFan2006]

OT But relevant in a bigger operational picture of why Britain needs these carriers.

http://defensetech.org/2012/01/31/br...-to-falklands/

Best!

Thanks for this Bama. Interesting reading some of the comments at the bottom of the article.

I was having the "Oil wars" conversation with someone the other day. I actually think that we should be fighting for oil. Lets face it, if we weren't, like some of our "allies" won't, we'd be paying $5000 per barrel and inflation, our economy and pretty much everything else which we rely on would be in a flat spin to its demise. It strikes me as naive to think we won't fight to protect our interests. Until something better comes along, we have to protect our oil interests. Otherwise, all those environmentalists and anti-war protesters couldn't drive to their next protests!!

Another comment I have heard is "Why us?" (meaning the UK / US alliance)". Why should Britain continue to be a world Policeman and "Punching above our weight". Again, it is in our interest to keep a place at the top table, with the big boys and their big, nuclear weapons. If we don't then someone else dictates our lives to us. We have a liberal democracy, and if we are in a position to influence the world to the greater good, then we should damned well do so. Otherwise Argentina would be imposing its will upon those in the Falklands, and Iran would be running amok.

[Pymes75]

Thanks for this Bama. Interesting reading some of the comments at the bottom of the article.

I was having the "Oil wars" conversation with someone the other day. I actually think that we should be fighting for oil. Lets face it, if we weren't, like some of our "allies" won't, we'd be paying $5000 per barrel and inflation, our economy and pretty much everything else which we rely on would be in a flat spin to its demise. It strikes me as naive to think we won't fight to protect our interests. Until something better comes along, we have to protect our oil interests. Otherwise, all those environmentalists and anti-war protesters couldn't drive to their next protests!!

Another comment I have heard is "Why us?" (meaning the UK / US alliance)". Why should Britain continue to be a world Policeman and "Punching above our weight". Again, it is in our interest to keep a place at the top table, with the big boys and their big, nuclear weapons. If we don't then someone else dictates our lives to us. We have a liberal democracy, and if we are in a position to influence the world to the greater good, then we should damned well do so. Otherwise Argentina would be imposing its will upon those in the Falklands, and Iran would be running amok.

I couldn't have put it better myself! I would be more likely to vote for any party that actually set out so clearly why we should continue to field an expeditionary military capability...

[Magnificent]

The link below is a paper from the USN describing in very precise detail how the UK took the lead in modern carrier design. It is very complimentary towards RN/UK inovation at the time and well worth a read.

http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/a...ircraft-Carrie
CJ

CJ:

Very interesting read for me as my father served aboard HMS WARRIOR in the 1950s, which had been refitted with the angled deck. My uncle served on HMS ARK ROYAL which was the first RN ship built with an angled flight deck. He was also very familiar with the mirror deck landing aid.

Also interesting as the subjects of this thread will now be fitted with angled decks and a 21st century version of the catapults. I am not exactly clear on what the landing aid system will look like but it is obviously an improvement on the old mirror system.

So will we see the final sponson fit for SB03 next week? That will be a milestone of sorts as it marks the completion of the heavy lifting work for Assembly Cycle A.

[SDL]

i would guess the final lift depends on the weather.... if the snow that's hitting us atm hits up there, then i can see them having to hold off.....

[cockneyjock1974]

CJ:

Very interesting read for me as my father served aboard HMS WARRIOR in the 1950s, which had been refitted with the angled deck. My uncle served on HMS ARK ROYAL which was the first RN ship built with an angled flight deck. He was also very familiar with the mirror deck landing aid.

Also interesting as the subjects of this thread will now be fitted with angled decks and a 21st century version of the catapults. I am not exactly clear on what the landing aid system will look like but it is obviously an improvement on the old mirror system.

So will we see the final sponson fit for SB03 next week? That will be a milestone of sorts as it marks the completion of the heavy lifting work for Assembly Cycle A.

Glad you enjoyed it magnificent and yes the reason why I posted it was because I was trying to get a feel for how long it takes to convert straight decked carriers to an angled deck. Obviously a very different ship building industry then as opossed to now but i would imagine we could convert QE in much less than 5 years IMO

[QUOTE=SDL;6013204]i would guess the final lift depends on the weather.... if the snow that's hitting us atm hits up there, then i can see them having to hold off.....[/QUOTE

Believe it or not there is no snow here, I think it missed eastern Scotland altogether, however they might have held off just in case.

Im hoping for next week at some point, I'm off Monday/Tuesday so will be keeping tabs.

CJ

[marktigger]

would sugest some of you need to look at MoD's helecopter plans for Merlin AEW!