I can see this being used as a way of getting back at Labour and the mess they left the country in.... AKA, we can't afford the 'good stuff' due to their mistakes
I’ll never forgive Fox, not because of what he done but for doing something so stupid and getting himself the boot, he was probably one of the better things to happen to the MOD in a long time.Originally Posted by happyslapper
Edit: let’s face it we are not going to order 136 B either, I think we will be lucky to have 80 in the end.
Anyway on a lighter note the following from the Portsmouth news.
Preparations under way for section of the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carrier to leave Portsmouth
By Michael Powell
Published on Wednesday 9 May 2012 16:14
FINAL preparations are being made for a huge 6,000-tonne section of the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carrier to leave the yard at Portsmouth Naval Base.
The mid-section of the hull of HMS Queen Elizabeth, called Lower Block 02, is due to sail 500 miles north on a barge to Rosyth in Scotland on May 25.
It has taken 1,300 BAE Systems workers 28 months to build the block in Portsmouth.
It has now been fully sealed and is 80 per cent fitted out with cabins, wash rooms and recreation areas. It also houses two 170-tonne diesel engines which each produce enough energy to power the whole of Portsmouth.
Lower Block 02 will follow a 1,820-tonne stern section which left Portsmouth earlier this month to go up to Rosyth where the 65,000-tonne warship is being finally assembled.
Weather permitting, it will be loaded out of the yard onto a on May 15 ahead of sailing 10 days later.
The BBC news item though very unwelcome did show some very impressive film of LB02 which looks absolutely huge and one has to remember that it makes up slightly less than a tenth of the ship.
Wonder if anyone within the MOD has checked with the US Dept of Defense on this especially as they both Panetta and Hammond issued a joint statement on the 12 January stating and this was in the joint press release on the DoD website about the UK's new carriers and fixed wing aviation between both Navy's.
Carrier Cooperation and Maritime Power Projection that will serve as the framework for increased cooperation and interoperability on the use of aircraft carriers, as well as provide the basis for the U.S. to assist the UK Royal Navy in developing its next generation of aircraft carriers.’
Furthermore, why have we embedded so many RN staff at the NAS Oceana within the LSO school and on USN carriers flying F18 Super Hornets, I for one think there is more to come on this and this announcement tomorrow is not the end by a long shot.
The worst part is all the hard work that’s went into this and has now been pissed away, I really appreciated the support the US navy was giving us, 99.9% of the country’s around the world would kill for access to their carriers ops stuff and there they were helping us out.
Jdam I don't see this as the end of this story, not by a long shot. There is more to come here.
I can remember years ago a close relative saying that a colleague of his, who was one down from the Chief of Defence staff, mooted the idea that EX military chiefs should be given a 5 year role within the MOD as permanent secretarys to each branch as they understood everything about their specific roles in the armed forces. They would have budgetary control and would also know what defence contractors are spinning BS. Sadly i dont think this got pass the MOD as too many civil servants worried about their pensions and not caring about the armed forces vetoed the idea.
I still say we will end up with CATOBAR carriers - but maybe on first major refit. Can't fault my optimism can you.
Hope the americans give our Gov hell over this!!!
Wouldn't even be too bad if it gave us two carriers in service.two carriers with less capable fighters or one carrier with more capable fighters...
The really nasty part of this re-rethink is that we might very well still head for a single carrier in service and one in extended readiness. Without the need for catapults, it could be possible to bring the carrier out of mothball at (relatively) short notice and put planes on her. Maybe alternate them in high readiness like with Albion and Bulwark...
But it still would suck.
F35B will better mean putting in service both hulls, seriously.
I wonder if people appreciate the difficulty and sheer amount of work involved with retrofitting the ships with cat. systems and especially the arrestor engines, at a later time.
Sure, it can be done, but at significant cost. Now is the time to make a hard and fast decision, otherwise the poor taxpayer will be hit once again and the Navy loses capability and an operational ship for quite some time in refit.
As I've said before it took 5 years to refit Ark Royal IV with an angled deck, catapults and arrestor gear etc. This was during the time when u had a hell of a lot more choice in shipyards than we have now. The only way these babies will be retrofitted in the future is if we have the political and financial will to maintain the UK as a world naval power. DC's idol is Winston Churchill, he alone beat the Naval Drum during the 50's that gave us the carriers we had and successive governments pissed it all away. Mmmm just like today!!
i can't see it take 5 years to convert QE, 12 months maybe, but not 5 years
Look at how many years QE has been in the planning stages. Couple that with modern day practices (OSH, etc) and time passes by very quickly.
Adding cats will require a lot of electrical work and guess where the cats would be in relation to the electrical generation equipment required to power them.
I would take an educated guess at over two years to convert an operational QE carrier to catobar configuration.
The QE2 was (from recollection) designed to be built "for but not with" catapults in the first place. It was known that it would have to be some kind of electromagnetic launcher, so trunking etc for cables and space for the launcher have already been put aside.
Ark Royal wasn't just an angled deck slapped onto an otherwise unchanged hull, she was rebuilt pretty dramatically. Over here, we went through much of the same with the Midways. But today, steam cats are pulled and re-installed on a fairly regular basis. If they leave the EMALs trenches in (just decked over), refitting the QEs shouldn't take longer than the lengthy overhauls which they will undergo as just a normal part of their careers. Not even steam plumbing to worry about.
I think this time there will be a provision build in to allow to change to Emals later( which said to be done but mostly this was a smoke screen by the last labour gov.), which will be announced as part of the change back to F35B.{note these ships are expected to in sevice for 50 years,(as long as they are not scapped/solded after 15)}.
When the next reveiw in 2015 the gov. of the day(not Labour) will put in money provision for this to done as it is the only long term thing to do as there is No money increase for the MOD buguet until then.
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