Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[Captain Thundebolt]

Well the QE Class are configured for a rapid turnaround of STOVL aircraft, the size of the ship and the axial flight deck means we can have aircraft refuelled and rearmed on either side of the runway and ready to go as soon as the flight controller marshalls them into position. Hopefully with the switch to the B they will increase the squadron size to 18 rather than 12 C's which should give an effective general airgroup that can be doubled up when required. As the AEW solution we will have to see what they come up with whilst the initial platform appears to be the Merlin MK2 i can't help thinking the USMC are going to do their best to temot us with the V-22 as a possible alternative that could also perform the COD role and possibly air tanker but like most potential capability thats not likely to be considered till the next SDSR or even the 2020 one.

There is another aspect of the QEC/CdG comparison, the QEC classs should have a ship always available and possibly 2 where as the CdG need more extensive refites and worse refuelling thats a a good 2 year job

I do like your thinking V22 is one piece of sexy kit but unfortunately I don’t think that MOD/RN will be rushing out to buy V22 Osprey aircraft any time soon just to fill the COD role, V22 is not viable proposition in the AAR either with her high wing loading supporting the infrastructure for the tilt rotors no Cobham 90 series pods there unfortunately, that leaves fuselage refuelling kit in the underbelly not much room under there unless they have a system that raise and lowers from the floor and that would bring too many headaches for the re- design team to integrate and then you lose internal volume for either troops or payload. Imagine if you could fit the infrastructure from the KC-130J Harvest Hawk with ISR/weapons but that’s not going to wash either were do you place the Hellfire and senor mount.

I think it best bet would be to use Merlin in the AEW/ASW mission kit for the RN, for a far out their off the wall idea, wonder how a DHC-4 Caribou would handle a ramp and JATO takeoff from the deck of Queen Elizabeth, once she up she has a 2000km range at max payload of 3500kg landing her is another question.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AHMEC_V-22.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V-22_concept.jpg


http://www.defence-update.net/wordpress/20100713_aw101_asac.html

http://www.cobham.com/media/33525/cob_m04_90x_80x_datasheet_2010.pdf

http://www.military.com/news/article/marine-corps-news/harvest-hawk-gives-marines-peace-of-mind.html

[ninja-lewis]

Yeah I just saw that too SDL basically it's white out on the forth just now I cant even see the north side at all. Plus for a week now there's had been loads of cranes next to QE trying to raise what I can only describe as a possible tower for the new bridge, it's massive and it's dominating the dry dock basin. I was thinking these might be some of the reasons for the delay.

Those are the caissons, which will form part of the foundations for the two towers on the new bridge. They're being fitted with pumps at Rosyth and a temporary extension before being moved into position.

http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures...e?referrer=RSS

[Pymes75]

the rafale M has 13 hardpoints and it can take 9.5 T of armament, it has a combat radius of + 1000 miles on a penetration mission
the F-3A ( I couldn't find the exact info for the B) 6 hardpoints on the wing and 4 in the bay for a total of 10 hardpoints and it can take 8.1 T of armament, it has a combat radius of 584 miles

the rafale has the advantage on the F-35B because it's more an "F-15 class" fighter
the only main advantage of the F-35B is it's electronics and it's steath

see the rafale has good perfs, her are pictures it took in exercises against the F-22
Attachment 179966

Woah buttercup! You can't compare combat capability using basic figures taken from webpages (especially ones that are wrong)...

1. All F-35s have 11x hard points not 10x - you forgot the fuselage center line point.

2. All F-35s have a built EOTS (based on the LockMart Sniper XR) whilst the Rafale needs to mount a Damocles pod to designate it's targets taking up a hard point as well as some of it's weapons load. On the other hand, the Rafale has a built in canon whilst the F-35B and C will have to mount the GAU-22 on the center line point when it's required for a mission.

3. 9,500kg vs 6,800kg is simply a subtraction of the MTOW minus Empty Weight and Full Internal Fuel Load. Combat aircraft rarely set off at MTOW (especially when taking off from a carrier!).

You can work out real life combat loads for yourself - but as an example: a large weapons load of 2x 1,816L Fuel Tanks, 4x Paveway IVs, 2x ASRAAMs and 1x GAU-22 Cannon comes to approx 4,600kg (i.e. no where near the F-35Bs quoted max weapon load). Equally, a weapons load of 2x Storm Shadows and 2x ASRAAMs comes to just 2,636kg!

4. Quoting a 1,000nm combat radius is meaningless unless you include the load out and mission profile. For instance, there is no way the quoted 1,000nm radius for a penetration mission is with internal fuel only. A Dassault publication "Fox Three" quotes an unrefuelled combat radius of 800nm when loaded with 4x 500lb GBU-12s, 2x MICA and 2x Magic plus THREE 2,000L Fuel Tanks * (but no Damocles for self-designation)!!

The F-35s quoted combat radius is in a 'clean configuration' - i.e. internal weapons (2x PGBs and 2x AAMs) and internal fuel only. If you were to add external fuel tanks and weapons naturally the combat radius would equally change!


* - i.e. 9,500kg of Fuel !!!

[Naval Oldie]

Yes and out of the basin she was sitting outside the basin at 7pm tonight, I will see if I can fond out exactly where it is sitting

There is absolutely no reason for SB03 to be moved out of the non-tidal basin. Are you sure the super block is not berthed on the eastern wall within the basin i.e.alongside the Crescent? This may give the impression that it is outside the basin from certain angles.

[9166]

Woah buttercup! You can't compare combat capability using basic figures taken from webpages (especially ones that are wrong)...

1. All F-35s have 11x hard points not 10x - you forgot the fuselage center line point.

2. All F-35s have a built EOTS (based on the LockMart Sniper XR) whilst the Rafale needs to mount a Damocles pod to designate it's targets taking up a hard point as well as some of it's weapons load. On the other hand, the Rafale has a built in canon whilst the F-35B and C will have to mount the GAU-22 on the center line point when it's required for a mission.

3. 9,500kg vs 6,800kg is simply a subtraction of the MTOW minus Empty Weight and Full Internal Fuel Load. Combat aircraft rarely set off at MTOW (especially when taking off from a carrier!).

You can work out real life combat loads for yourself - but as an example: a large weapons load of 2x 1,816L Fuel Tanks, 4x Paveway IVs, 2x ASRAAMs and 1x GAU-22 Cannon comes to approx 4,600kg (i.e. no where near the F-35Bs quoted max weapon load). Equally, a weapons load of 2x Storm Shadows and 2x ASRAAMs comes to just 2,636kg!

4. Quoting a 1,000nm combat radius is meaningless unless you include the load out and mission profile. For instance, there is no way the quoted 1,000nm radius for a penetration mission is with internal fuel only. A Dassault publication "Fox Three" quotes an unrefuelled combat radius of 800nm when loaded with 4x 500lb GBU-12s, 2x MICA and 2x Magic plus THREE 2,000L Fuel Tanks * (but no Damocles for self-designation)!!

The F-35s quoted combat radius is in a 'clean configuration' - i.e. internal weapons (2x PGBs and 2x AAMs) and internal fuel only. If you were to add external fuel tanks and weapons naturally the combat radius would equally change!


* - i.e. 9,500kg of Fuel !!!

The hardpoints on a F35B from wingtip to centre are;
300lb (AAM) 1,500lb 5,000lb, 1,500lb (internal bomb), 350lb (internal AAM) and 1,000lb (gun pod)

On the A and C the 1,500lb hardpoints are rated to 2,500lb

[cyrilranch]

CB02 on the move on Monday 28th at 4pm

A large ocean-going barge will carry the five flight deck modules, which weigh more than 3,500 tonnes, known as Centre Blocks 02 (CB02), from Cammell Laird to Rosyth.

Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...#ixzz1vxrc7wB0

[cockneyjock1974]

Super block 03 is firmly still in dry dock No.1 with weld tents still on her and LB02 is sitting outside the dry dock just like her older sister did prior to being dragged up the Forth for submergence. I will get some more detailed pics later when my hangover goes away and i'm fit to ride my bike

[danim]

There is absolutely no reason for SB03 to be moved out of the non-tidal basin. Are you sure the super block is not berthed on the eastern wall within the basin i.e.alongside the Crescent? This may give the impression that it is outside the basin from certain angles.

She was defiantly outside the main basin
see how on the satellite view of the link that I posted last night she is next to the two mcmv and the tug next to The Crescent

[danim]

so SB03 has been put back in dry dock

[cockneyjock1974]

Danim I witnessed most of the important events in QE's history, I admit that I was out of the area last night from 4pm onwards. I simply cannot see Babcock taking SB03 out of Drydock and putting her back in again for no reason as LB02 is still outside. Plus it was evening when she arrived and these events take the whole day. So what I take from what your saying is that SB03 was dragged out of drydock placed against the crescent and put back in again overnight. Sorry not trying to be a smartarse but are you sure?

[cyrilranch]

what we need is a live webcab from the place cockneyjock1974 takes his pictures

[Pymes75]

The hardpoints on a F35B from wingtip to centre are;
300lb (AAM) 1,500lb 5,000lb, 1,500lb (internal bomb), 350lb (internal AAM) and 1,000lb (gun pod)

On the A and C the 1,500lb hardpoints are rated to 2,500lb

Yes, I know. But firstly, there isn't a weapon in the 5,000lb class - Storm Shadow is 2,866lbs whilst a full wing tank is only 3,200lbs (plus the tank). Secondly, the F-35B doesn't have the weight margin to carry that full load as it would come to 18,300lbs whilst ALL of the official documentation states that Dave B has a weapons capacity of 15,000lbs.

[Briani]

This from the Liverpool Daily Post



On Monday at 4pm the five flight deck and hangar modules beneath them will undertake the five-day voyage around western UK to the Firth of Forth.
At Rosyth Naval Dockyard the sections will be welded together with other parts of the future HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier which have been built at five separate UK shipyards.
Cammell Laird has successfully met the two-year deadline set for the £44m project as its contribution to the 65,000 gross tonne ship, the largest ever built for the Royal Navy.
A large ocean-going barge will carry the five flight deck modules, which weigh more than 3,500 tonnes, known as Centre Blocks 02 (CB02), from Cammell Laird to Rosyth.

The shipyard is due to complete the construction of further modules which will be sailed to Rosyth later this year.
Cammell Laird has spent the last fortnight preparing the flight decks for their sail away.
The aircraft carriers HMS Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship HMS Prince of Wales are being delivered by the Aircraft Carrier Alliance (ACA), a partnership between BAE Systems, Thales UK, Babcock and the UK Ministry of Defence.
BAE Systems has an overarching role in managing the QE Class programme as well as playing a central role in the design and build of the ships.
The two QE Class carriers will be the centrepiece of Britain’s future long-term military capability.
Each 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier will provide the armed forces with a four-acre military operating base which can be deployed worldwide.
The vessels will be versatile enough to be used for operations ranging from supporting war efforts to providing humanitarian aid and disaster relief.
John Syvret, Cammell Laird chief executive, said: “The company is immensely proud to be delivering the first phase of the £44m two year project on time.
“This is a terrific contract for the company to work on and I pay tribute to our staff and suppliers who are working enormously hard with the Aircraft Carrier Alliance to deliver these magnificent flight decks.”
Mr Syvret added: “It showcases our world-class engineering facilities including our Construction Hall which is one of the biggest and best equipped in Europe.’’
Linton Roberts, Cammell Laird managing director, said: “The successful delivery of the first phase of the contract will help reinforce our campaign to promote the Cammell Laird brand worldwide.”

[serge 750]

Hi guys

Cheers for the photo update cj,your definatly going to be a happy snapper for the next few months! I consider hangovers memories of a good night

Thanks for the cb02 updates aswell guys,going to be sooo busy upthere.i do hope the ACA website updates thier web cam for this stage of assembly.

[danim]

Danim I witnessed most of the important events in QE's history, I admit that I was out of the area last night from 4pm onwards. I simply cannot see Babcock taking SB03 out of Drydock and putting her back in again for no reason as LB02 is still outside. Plus it was evening when she arrived and these events take the whole day. So what I take from what your saying is that SB03 was dragged out of drydock placed against the crescent and put back in again overnight. Sorry not trying to be a smartarse but are you sure?

I have just had a thought, where was LB02 sitting when she arrived because I thought I saw it sitting in the middle of the forth while SB03 was sitting next to The Cresent but I wonder if there was another large object sitting in the forth while LB02 was next to The Cresent and SB03 was in drydock because that would explain things. Did you see anything yesterday out in the forth quite a bit up from rosyth