Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[jonas]

The current procurement is a bit service centered rather then job requirement.

I would use the new 14 off Chinooks(MK6) being build by boeing and transfer them to the RM's(16 air Assault Brigade) and make the aircraft fully marineised with folding rotates ect.
and let the RAF keep there Merlins MK3/3a's

Quite frankly I would like to see these 14 Chinooks cancelled,and the money put towards a desperately needed MPA. At the moment the RAF is the second largest operator of Chinook after the US Army,and according to whom you read we have approx 46/48 airframes. Why on earth do we need 60 especially now we are pulling out of Afghanistan where these helicopters will arrive to late to serve in any case.

I can see them languishing in storage hangars,being cannibalised for spares. Do we even have enough aircrew,I very much doubt it.

A decent MPA is what is criticaly needed,not more Chinooks.

NB. Cost of these 14 Chinooks is £1bn, it has been quoted we could get a 5 Poseidon deal for that figure.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

Yes,it's much like BAE hawking typhoon round the world isn't it. We know that MOD has had a cursory look at the V22 and rejected it,but in the long term who knows.

Call me an old cynic, but I think there is something here this time. There is probably some 'at work' on the MOD on this now and saying how much more capable and adaptable the V22 is over the Merlin in terms of AEW, Troop extraction/delivery and so on. I for one would not be surprised if we had an annoucement saying that we've decided to trial a few V22's much like we did with the C-17 GlobeMaster III when we tried, then leased, and I do believe bought outright. I still remember how big it looked on the Ark Royal when it landed a few years back, it actually looked too big for the ship ! Same cannot be said for either QE or PoW.


Don't be shocked gents if thats the case here. Anyway back to our roving reporter in Rosyth, any movement up there at the moment CJ ?


Thanks

[cockneyjock1974]

Anyway back to our roving reporter in Rosyth, any movement up there at the moment CJ ? Thanks

Looking at her just now QEC, not much to say really. Goliath has been having a wee play this morning but not lifting anything, I just cant see them lifting any more CB units until end of this week!! next week more likely. I think this video demonstrates the concerns regarding the V22, when have you have ever heard of the military having to sell the benefits of the aircraft to it's troops because of it's fatality rate.

[Pymes75]

Quite frankly I would like to see these 14 Chinooks cancelled,and the money put towards a desperately needed MPA. At the moment the RAF is the second largest operator of Chinook after the US Army,and according to whom you read we have approx 46/48 airframes. Why on earth do we need 60 especially now we are pulling out of Afghanistan where these helicopters will arrive to late to serve in any case.

I can see them languishing in storage hangars,being cannibalised for spares. Do we even have enough aircrew,I very much doubt it.

A decent MPA is what is criticaly needed,not more Chinooks.

NB. Cost of these 14 Chinooks is £1bn, it has been quoted we could get a 5 Poseidon deal for that figure.

Whilst I sympathise with the case for MPA, I really don't believe that cancelling the Chinooks is the way to achieve it. Firstly, I doubt the cost of the 14x Wokkas would buy much of a MPA capability. Secondly, if you look at the SH fleet as a whole, UK forces are not being increased. Don't forget that whilst the Merlin cabs are being transferred from the RAF to the FAA, they aren't being directly replaced. Therefore, UK forces are going from: 37x Sea Kings, 32x Pumas, 28x Merlins and 46x Chinooks - to: 28x Pumas, 24x Merlins and 60x Chinooks. The RAF crews needed for the additional Chinooks will come from those no longer needed on the Merlins...

Given that SH has been critical to every single UK operation in the last 30 years, it really is one capability that, if anything, should be increased NOT decreased!

[Jdam1]

Even next week might be a bit optimistic, it took them 6 weeks to weld the 2 sections together in Portsmouth. Maybe the aca should have save the shots of LB04 and the aft island for the next few weeks to tie us over.




The V22 seems like the logical next step for the QE class, it’s just the cost that will always be the main drawback. If you stick abunch of AEW I guess you will not be able to carry any troops in it and if it’s doing AEW it will not be available for tanker duty. So we will need to buy a good amount of them. I dont think buy 4 or 5 would cut it.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

Looking at her just now QEC, not much to say really. Goliath has been having a wee play this morning but not lifting anything, I just cant see them lifting any more CB units until end of this week!! next week more likely. I think this video demonstrates the concerns regarding the V22, when have you have ever heard of the military having to sell the benefits of the aircraft to it's troops because of it's fatality rate.

You've got to love that Major 'Yes we've got teething problems with the aircraft!' WHAT !!!! If I was asked to fly any aircraft that had teething problems, well you wouldn't get it off the ground as your engineering officer would not sign its certificate of air worthiness, but you could bet my backside wouldn't be sat in the seat with controls in front of me !!! My My, what a shambles, and what was that Capt saying 'Its just like an aircraft from the film Transformers???!!!' Sorry, but this isn't the movies, this is real life.


When was this film made CJ as I know that the various Heads of the USN and the CNO fly around in these quite a lot now, so maybe those teething issues have been overcome. In fact the Commanding officer of the USMC uses this all the time in Afghanistan.


In theory, its an innovative idea, helicopter and plane combined so you've got a multitude of possibilities with this aircraft, unfortunately it would appear it comes with a multitude of issues.



Thanks.

[cyrilranch]

Even next week might be a bit optimistic, it took them 6 weeks to weld the 2 sections together in Portsmouth. Maybe the aca should have save the shots of LB04 and the aft island for the next few weeks to tie us over.

Ik's
The V22 seems like the logical next step for the QE class, it’s just the cost that will always be the main drawback. If you stick abunch of AEW I guess you will not be able to carry any troops in it and if it’s doing AEW it will not be available for tanker duty. So we will need to buy a good amount of them. I dont think buy 4 or 5 would cut it.

IF the money was obtain

Then a fleet of 12 aircraft would be o.k, this base on a Roll-on Roll-off kit(2-4hours change off)
4 AEW
2 Tankers
2 COD
4 OCU

Troop carrying is not it's main role only as a back-up to the Merlin Mk4's and Chinook

[SDL]

^^ Jdam1 if you an come up with a simple and cost effective module system. then you wouldn't need that many, the Four or Five number would be suitable

[cockneyjock1974]

You've got to love that Major 'Yes we've got teething problems with the aircraft!' WHAT !!!! If I was asked to fly any aircraft that had teething problems, well you wouldn't get it off the ground as your engineering officer would not sign its certificate of air worthiness, but you could bet my backside wouldn't be sat in the seat with controls in front of me !!! My My, what a shambles, and what was that Capt saying 'Its just like an aircraft from the film Transformers???!!!' Sorry, but this isn't the movies, this is real life.


When was this film made CJ as I know that the various Heads of the USN and the CNO fly around in these quite a lot now, so maybe those teething issues have been overcome. In fact the Commanding officer of the USMC uses this all the time in Afghanistan.


In theory, its an innovative idea, helicopter and plane combined so you've got a multitude of possibilities with this aircraft, unfortunately it would appear it comes with a multitude of issues.



Thanks.

It was made pre 2008 QEC and I think that most of the issues are solved now, the problem they had back then was it had the same reputation as the Lockheed Starfighter it was a widow maker. I still think we should entertain the possibility of using these aircraft, even from a joint pool like the RC135 Rivet Joint, would save on costs.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

It was made pre 2008 QEC and I think that most of the issues are solved now, the problem they had back then was it had the same reputation as the Lockheed Starfighter it was a widow maker. I still think we should entertain the possibility of using these aircraft, even from a joint pool like the RC135 Rivet Joint, would save on costs.

Rivet Joint, now there's a laugh. An aircraft with an airframe which is almost fifty years old, however, we are getting the one's with the youngest airframes and will be modified ! Didnt we just can our harriers for being 'too old' HELLO PHILIP !!!!!!! For goodness sake, Nimrod was a younger aircraft. Personally I'd settle for more Sentinel's which are at less new airframes etc.



Thanks for the update on Rosyth too CJ.

[wolf321]

The Osprey is the best solution for the carriers in their finalised configuration for the roles of COD, AEW and Tanker, if you disregard cost. Also the fact that they are not pressurised and cannot be because they have a square fuselage. Thus they are not able to achieve anything like the altitude of the E2d Hawkeye. Their role as a tanker would be very useful as by all accounts the F35B is going to be a very thirsty bird. Personally I think they are a good if expensive compromise for a RN battle group and even though they cannot match the performance of a pressurised aircraft they are far superior to helicopters.

[Geoff_B]

Quite frankly I would like to see these 14 Chinooks cancelled,and the money put towards a desperately needed MPA. At the moment the RAF is the second largest operator of Chinook after the US Army,and according to whom you read we have approx 46/48 airframes. Why on earth do we need 60 especially now we are pulling out of Afghanistan where these helicopters will arrive to late to serve in any case.

I can see them languishing in storage hangars,being cannibalised for spares. Do we even have enough aircrew,I very much doubt it.

A decent MPA is what is criticaly needed,not more Chinooks.

NB. Cost of these 14 Chinooks is £1bn, it has been quoted we could get a 5 Poseidon deal for that figure.

Jonas - Nope the 14 new Chinooks are very much needed, the bit of information your not taking into account as are most people is that some of the existing Chinook fleet is getting knackered, and at an excessive rate, thats why Gordon Brown was pushing for 20+ as some are replacements for written airframes or those cabs that will have run out of hours as well as additional capability!

Osprey is very much a pipe dream at the moment, but will probably be reassessed at we near 2020.

[Jdam1]

Jonas - Nope the 14 new Chinooks are very much needed, the bit of information your not taking into account as are most people is that some of the existing Chinook fleet is getting knackered, and at an excessive rate, thats why Gordon Brown was pushing for 20+ as some are replacements for written airframes or those cabs that will have run out of hours as well as additional capability!

Don’t fall for that lie Brown was never going to buy 20 Chinooks, it’s the old labor trick of announcing things twice and making it sound like a new announcement, it was 12 new Chinooks plus an upgrade for 8 old special forces ones that couldn’t fly, the RAF was only ever going to get 12 new Chinooks!

[cyrilranch]

F-35 Test Pilot Discusses Flying the STOVL (F-35B)


http://youtu.be/ub4Wsq7wzNg


p.s how do you embed a youtube video on to this site?

[Arfah]

With regard to an RN organic AEW capability...

I think a modern version of a barrage balloon would suffice. Semi rigid, helium filled with a suspended array, Electro Optics/FLIR & comms kit. We wouldn't necessarily have to deploy it from a carrier either.

Pros. Cheap, easily deployable
Cons. Tethered to a warship and can't fly away