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Thread: Effects of APFSDS rounds on tanks.

  1. #61
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    Penetrators are even heavier, I'l try to find how much they weight right now.

    Ok, M829A3 penetrator weight's about ~7kg and have lenght of 800mm and diameter of 25mm, preatty nice bastard.

    By the way, still it can be heavier, who knows, and diameter can be bigger than 25mm, much bigger.

    M829A3:

    Last edited by Damian90; 09-24-2009 at 07:26 PM.

  2. #62
    Member walkerny's Avatar
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    Default Spall

    Quote Originally Posted by Damian90 View Post
    Spall not Spawl.

    Now in more and more AFV's are monted Spall Liner's to protect crew and internal equipment/ammo from spall.

    Thanks. Never saw it on paper. Incredible for every advance in armor penetration, there are dedicated engineers working on protection.

  3. #63
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    By the way, still it can be heavier
    DM53 and DM63 weight more than 8kg...
    The latest US ones even almost 10...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienfreak View Post
    DM53 and DM63 weight more than 8kg...
    The latest US ones even almost 10...
    Those are projectile weights. Projectile is made of the sabot and the penetrator. So penetrator weighs less than the whole projectile.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    Yup. Still, M829A3 is very heavy in comparision to other modern penetrators, and very long, 800mm! And still it's capabielieties are classified, estimates from Russians are 795mm RHA at 2000m, other say 765, and other 800mm RHA, oldest give round 900-960mm RHA! But oldest ones are surely overestimated, still this is best APFSDS round used today.

    I wonder how good will be devloped right now M829A4.

  6. #66
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    still this is best APFSDS round used today.
    The DM53/63 from a L55 is thought to penetrate 1000mm?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    Buahaha... 1000mm?!

    Who tell you such BS?

    Because what it is fired from L55? You know what is funny? M829A3 fired from L44 have better performance than DM53/63 fired from L55. Later I give you estimates.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    Ok.

    DM53 fired from L44 have penetration level 700mm at 2000m.
    DM53 fired from L55 have penetration level 760mm at 2000m.
    DM63 fired from L44 have penetration level 680mm at 2000m.
    DM63 fired from L55 have penetration level 720mm at 2000m.(weaker propelant charge, penetrator is same as in DM53)

    M829A3 fired from L44 have penetration level 765mm at 2000m, Russians estimates 795mm at 2000m.

    Why? Because M829A3 penetrator is much smarter design, not only it is the longest KE penetrator used today, but also have big diameter so it is less susceptible to broke in flight, when hiting target, it is less vurnabale to Heavy ERA's and modern armors than long DM53/63 with much smaller diameter.
    Besides this M829A3 is slower so it is also capabale to perforate armor covered by Heavy ERA not detonating heavy ERA.

    So you see, not only gun and MV is important but also round itself, it construction. etc.

  9. #69
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    Also note that it flies about 200 m/s faster than the Us version...

  10. #70
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    So what? And what US version? US use German ammo? Wrom whom you take such ridiculous informations?

    Did you read what I wrote? maybe read that until you understand. I don't know how simpler explain this to you.

    MV have less to do with penetration level than construction of the round itself.

    And you kno what, DU perform better flying slower than WHA flying faster, you ever know that?

    Or you just belieeve in thouse stupid myths that Germans always build better AFV and ammo than the others, yup, really stupid myth.

  11. #71
    Member fmaster's Avatar
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    I'm curious about the performance of Relikt ERA against APFSDS. I know that its detail is classified in many ways, however it is said that Relikt is developed to withstand M829A3, one of the most advanced APFSDS in the world. Any estimation about its probablity of M829A3 protection?

    Besides, I've read that United States developed M829A2/A3 after the Kontakt-5 ERA of old T-72 - acquired from East Germany after their reunification - defeated all M829s fired against it. Is it true?

  12. #72
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    M829A3 was developed after tests not only on K-5 on T-72M/M1 but US also tested T-80U's and bought 4 T-84U Oplot from Ukraine equiped with more advanced Knife ERA.

    Yes K-5 protect against M829, but we don't know if M829A1 was tested, surely interim design was M829A2.

    Still Relikt can prvide better boost in protection supporting basic armor, because ERA itsefl doesen't protect against projectile, it only support basic armor.

    Well the answer to Relikt could be new round in development, M829A4.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Hyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damian90 View Post
    Buahaha... 1000mm?!

    Who tell you such BS?

    Because what it is fired from L55? You know what is funny? M829A3 fired from L44 have better performance than DM53/63 fired from L55. Later I give you estimates.
    That's the same fact/knowledge that exists since the internet became popular:

    All western tanks have 1000mm Rha (sometimes even more)
    And the cannon of the LEopard 2/M1A2 etc.. can defeat 1000mm Rha.


  14. #74
    Senior Member Damian90's Avatar
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    Oh please, I hate myths.

    One thing can be possible, all modern tanks in NATO, Israel, Russia, Ukraine and lets say Japan and South Korea, can survive hit over frontal arc even from the best ammo used today.

    Not nececary having 1000mm frontal protection against KE, but against CE modern armor are close to 2000mm of RHAe.

    By against today KE ammo, more than 800mm and it is very good level, well even more than 600mm of RHAe is very good level.

  15. #75
    Member DavidDCM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmaster View Post
    Besides, I've read that United States developed M829A2/A3 after the Kontakt-5 ERA of old T-72 - acquired from East Germany after their reunification - defeated all M829s fired against it. Is it true?
    I'm only aware of German tests, and they were able to punch through the turret of T-72M1's.

    http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.d...sversuche.html

    Damian there's no reason to become rude, calm down man

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