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Thread: Argentina Armed Forces thread

  1. #841
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    Amigos

    Feliz Día de la Independencia!

    In case you did not see it this weekend here in Paraná pictures taken during an air show























    Saludos

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    "Another day at the office." Really good Skyhawk footage.

  3. #843

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    I apologize if this is sligthly off-topic but does anyone have any sources available concerning the current status of dardo bombs/missiles in argentinean air services? are they in active service? on which types? when has the production started? are there other versions active, besides the initial INS/GPS guided version? Jet powered versions? What sort of anti gps-jam protection is realistic to expect those systems have?

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    I read an interesting piece of news that the Pampa II will replace some (if not all) the Mirages until a longer term solution is found? Maybe they should go for an enhanced single pilot Pampa with more powerful engines, bigger wings, more advanced radar and electronics and a heavier weapons load to replace the Miragesas well as the Skyhawks.

    -----JT-----

  6. #846

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    Quote Originally Posted by totoro View Post
    I apologize if this is sligthly off-topic but does anyone have any sources available concerning the current status of dardo bombs/missiles in argentinean air services? are they in active service? on which types? when has the production started? are there other versions active, besides the initial INS/GPS guided version? Jet powered versions? What sort of anti gps-jam protection is realistic to expect those systems have?
    That´s OPSEC, mister.

    (so far just tests, AFAIK)


    Quote Originally Posted by vajt39 View Post
    I read an interesting piece of news that the Pampa II will replace some (if not all) the Mirages until a longer term solution is found? Maybe they should go for an enhanced single pilot Pampa with more powerful engines, bigger wings, more advanced radar and electronics and a heavier weapons load to replace the Miragesas well as the Skyhawks.

    -----JT-----
    That would be a terrible idea, IMHO; IA-63s are advanced trainers with some light-attack skills, you can´t expect (not even with new engines / electronics) it to play as a multirol fighter.

    We can´t expect an outdated interceptor to keep watching our skies neither.
    We can´t expect an attack plane to play as fighter, much less to play an effective attack role by just dropping dumb bombs (and thus waisting its still good electronics) also.

    Keep the Pampas as trainers, and for G-d sake buy an actual & truly capable multirol fighter !! so far we´re spending the few resources we still have for defense in far fetched patches...

  7. #847
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    Amigos

    The defense minister announced that the AT-63 Pampa II will replace the Mirage of 6 Brigade Tandil Air as a temporary replacement. Variants will be standard

    It is the act of military aviation centenary of Argentina, will be an aerial show in Cordoba, in addition to the Argentine military aircraft, will be the escuadrila The Falcons of the Air Force, the FAB Fumaca, 5 Pucara of the FAU

    Saludos

  8. #848

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    could I ask, without derailing the thread, what lessons have the Argentine armed forces taken from the Falklands conflict? How was the thinking of the armed forces, if at all, altered?

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    Quote Originally Posted by facundo View Post
    The defense minister announced that the AT-63 Pampa II will replace the Mirage of 6 Brigade Tandil Air as a temporary replacement. Variants will be standard
    I think that this is very bad news for the FAA - this "temporary" fix might well end up being permanent. The FAA wasted too much time replacing the Deltas and now they will suffer for it. To think they could have had three squadrons of F-16s by the end of the 90s on the cheap.

    There's no good used options available now and it will only get worse in the future. The more they wait, the more money they'll have to spend later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RomeoTangoFoxtrotIndigo View Post
    could I ask, without derailing the thread, what lessons have the Argentine armed forces taken from the Falklands conflict? How was the thinking of the armed forces, if at all, altered?
    They learned plenty of painful lessons: the rapid expenditure of ordnance in modern war, the importance of rigorous training, electronic warfare and signals intelligence (especially in maritime patrol), the importance of stand-off aircraft weapons, anti-submarine warfare, the value of aerial refueling, etc. The Argentine government created a damning report on the conduct of the war in the years after that highlighted all of the problems the armed forces faced and their mistakes.

    Steps were taken, or were already underway before the war began, to remedy the most important equipment problems. The navy was in the midst of a big and expensive modernization, with new and more capable German frigates and corvettes, quality diesel submarines (TR-1700) and new patrol aircraft. The air force and army had their own programs as well, but most of their big ticket items were slashed.

    The arms embargo affected plans, but some changes were still made: some air force fighters were upgraded with basic ECM, new weapons were bought, and electronic warfare capability was boosted with help from Israel. In every area of the armed forces however, the crippling lack of funding hindered progress, so the lessons were learned, but were not completely applied.

  11. #851

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    Elbs thank you for the reply.

    I'm guessing that with the above talk of the Pampa replacing the Mirage that the Argentine AF aren't looking at donations from say Europe or the US for surplus modern fighters (nothing unrealistic, what about surplus F-16s or F/A-18s). Shame to see nothing is being done in this area, though I understand that when the money is an issue it does kind of cause a problem.

    If needed, could Argentina turn to one of its neighbours to patrol its skies? Not thinking in terms of anything more than aerial policing during peace time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RomeoTangoFoxtrotIndigo View Post
    Elbs thank you for the reply.

    I'm guessing that with the above talk of the Pampa replacing the Mirage that the Argentine AF aren't looking at donations from say Europe or the US for surplus modern fighters (nothing unrealistic, what about surplus F-16s or F/A-18s). Shame to see nothing is being done in this area, though I understand that when the money is an issue it does kind of cause a problem.

    If needed, could Argentina turn to one of its neighbours to patrol its skies? Not thinking in terms of anything more than aerial policing during peace time.
    The situation isn't that bad, since the A-4AR fleet, which is much more effective than the Mirage III in air defense, has been carefully managed since their purchase and there are a lot of low hour birds stored in reserve.

    The air force's problem is that the government will not cough up the money to buy new fighters (they've been offered new F-16s and new block Super Hornets), and there's also very few used options on the market worth looking at. France is holding on to its upgraded Mirage 2000-5s until the switch to Rafale is complete. Early Block F-16s are long in the tooth by now, and ex-Navy Hornets will be busted up from carrier ops and long service lives. The Spanish and Jordanian Mirage F1s don't really offer a viable solution seeing as how they're beat as well, and buying Russian and Chinese is out of the question.

  13. #853

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    Quote Originally Posted by elbs View Post
    i think that this is very bad news for the faa - this "temporary" fix might well end up being permanent. The faa wasted too much time replacing the deltas and now they will suffer for it. To think they could have had three squadrons of f-16s by the end of the 90s on the cheap.

    There's no good used options available now and it will only get worse in the future. The more they wait, the more money they'll have to spend later.
    x 2

    ..................

  14. #854
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  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin B View Post
    Nice pic! I read that the Cruz del Sur team will re-form with Pampas replacing the old Sukhoi Su-29s and I gotta say it's a good choice.

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