What if thread #3: Italy joins the Central Powers in WW1

[JackTheRipper]

But a lot of people doesn't know that the I World War was won first of all in the Balcans, than with the Italian counter-offensive of Vittorio Veneto that put AH empire out of war, and this big event colapsed some months later Germany....

yes, true. Almost all forget that Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed after the battle of Vittorio Veneto. Of course the dissolution of the empire was already in place, but this after the defeat on Piave river that worn the Austrian army and gave a boost to all the independence movements. The Italian offensive at Vittorio veneto was the coup de grâce.
I'm reading a very interesting Book http://www.amazon.com/Great-Wars-For.../dp/0880333979 it talks about a czech soldier in the Austro-Hungarian army on the Italian Front. Explains all the major italian offensives in 1917, Caporetto and the last 2 battles

[Saturn]

Italian army of 1918 was a very, very serious oponent.

Very modern, well comanded now, motivated, numerous.... everything one can expect (or dream for if you take the central power side...)

They had made their reform, a bit like the French first half of 1917, they were building Renault FT17 tanks under licence en masse, and the French were sending them huge loads of modern materials
(to the Italian but also to the Serbs, the Greeks, the Americans, ... It's incredible the amount of iron and other killing machines France was able to through on the field in 1918... even compared with WW2 standards!)
Plus advisers as well as combat procedures France experimented before, etc.

So that end 1918 an Italian invasion of Bavaria was one of the most dangerous - if not the most dangerous - threat for Germany! Not less.

Germany had nothing left to oppose it! Austra had surendered and opened its border. The Italian were there and ready to enter. A matter of days.
Plus the offensive on western front planed for the 14th of November, plus the offensive of Franchet d'Esperey along the Danube after Bulgaria collapse...

No wonder that Germany was so hurry to collapse end 1918 and Italy was actually a major part of it.
Too bad Wilson prevent it otherwise you can bet that Italian military reputation would have been different seen from the German's eyes...

[zeelim]

AH lost the Battle of Caporetto mainly for internal political reasons. The country was already breaking apart in the midst of the battle.

[LordTyphus]

By the way there were French troops on the Austro-Italian fronts. In fact Italy reached a point during the war where they pleaded for help from France and britain and both nation had to send troops and advisers to that front to prevent Italy from collapsing. The Austrian army was hardly impressive. At the onset of the war the Serbian scattered a much larger Austrian army sent to punish the Serb. And Hapsburg empire was quite rebellious as only the rulers (that is Austrian and Hungarians) benefitted from that empire.

I seriously doubt Italy could have posed a serious threat. The German economy was bound to collapse sooner or later.

[JackTheRipper]

By the way there were French troops on the Austro-Italian fronts. In fact Italy reached a point during the war where they pleaded for help from France and britain and both nation had to send troops and advisers to that front to prevent Italy from collapsing. The Austrian army was hardly impressive. At the onset of the war the Serbian scattered a much larger Austrian army sent to punish the Serb. And Hapsburg empire was quite rebellious as only the rulers (that is Austrian and Hungarians) benefitted from that empire.

I seriously doubt Italy could have posed a serious threat. The German economy was bound to collapse sooner or later.

French and British troops were used only as reserve force on italian front. For example, during the battle of vittorio veneto the allied casualties were 145 French and 374 Britons. the italians lost 38.000 men and the austrians at least 450.000 men.

The allied were very important supporting Italy with industrial product, weapons, food and raw materials. don't forget that Italy was since 1950s one of the poorest country in Europe. without this kind of support, Italy could never win the war.
but on the front line, the main effort was sustained only by italian troops

Ludendorff wrote:

In Vittorio Veneto, Austria did not lose a battle, but lose the war and itself, dragging Germany in its fall. Without the destructive battle of Vittorio Veneto, we would have been able, in a military union with the Austro-Hungarian monarchy, to continue the desperate resistance through the whole winter, in order to obtain a less harsh peace, because the Allies were very fatigued.

[WinG_HU]

I'm pretty sure that if Italy had joined the Central Powers in 1914, the outcome of the war would have been entirely different. The Italian front was a HUGE burden for the Austro-Hungarian army and also for the navy. Those hundreds of thousand KuK soldiers and zillion tonnes of resources (kaiserlich und königlich, which meant that it belonged to the Austrian emperor and the Hungarian king) could have been dropped to the Serbian front or against the Russians or, say, against the French in a combined Austro-Hungarian-Italian campaign in South France. Just imagine if the French had faced not only a large offensive on the North, but another - just as huge in size - attack on the South. That would have made the German breakthrough quite possible.

The Italian front was a bloody one. The Austro-Hungarian navy lost many large ships (like the battleship SMS Szent István) due to Italian subs and smallers vessels and the Italians had also enormous losses. A combined Austro-Hungarian-Italian fleet would have been able to check the French fleet, or even to control the whole Mediterranean Sea with the help of the Turkish Navy.

[Djordjija]

Jes absolutely....probably Italy ( i'm italian...) was not able to do decisive battles on the Alps against France....but the new 200km front and a lot of AH soldiers ready for war should be a really big problem for the allies...

But a lot of people doesn't know that the I World War was won first of all in the Balcans, than with the Italian counter-offensive of Vittorio Veneto that put AH empire out of war, and this big event colapsed some months later Germany....

Well indeed Serbian army by wining and repelling AH forces in 2 big battles in start of WW1 made war go different way.They left Central powers with 3 fronts and a lot of soldiers need to come from Russian front on balkan even some german troops which eventualy lead for Serbian army to retreat.If there would be british-french troops to come to Serbia to try to strike at heart of AH (50k with good weapons could do a lot under great generals of Serbian army maybe even split AH) then Italy on side of germany would be big problem.But allies opened Souln front to late and fighting like pussies (french army).There was one ultimatum from Russia to withdraw from war in 1915 if Ally dont help Serbia to recover their army.on that subject anyone got battle of Cer and battle of Kolubara ww1 info from West point?

[Corto_Maltese]

this video may be of some help to understand how the WW1 evolved in the south http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-jY-...bMqkQ&index=11