Reply With QuoteNiels for 2010!
I'm sorry, but that is total BS.Originally Posted by Ordie
Niels for 2010!
nice one
I don't disagree with you but you Americans also get much much much less Muslims as we do.
Its not hard to assimilate a couple hundred thousands Muslims in a huge spacious country of 300Million which is strongly christian anyway and people aren't push overs.
But this is besides the point...All this nonsense could have been avoided by simply getting guest workers not from Muslim countries but from Eastern European countries or even more Spanish and Italians.
They have our mindset and culture, same religion and they are much more educated and capable than the alternative and let alone how close by they are anyway.
The whole thing is complete madness...
What a fascist thing to say.
You're not aware of the fact that yours are the positions of Mr. Wilders as well, or are you. Ergo: you are Fascist too, if you want to label him so.
Don't bait him. Ordie pulls off this number all the time and quits the discussion as soon as he's dared to respond.
Don't engage in patronizing multi-culturalism policies that allows them (by law) to be different from the local society.
Give the immigrants the right to sink or swim with no expections under a common law that applies to citizens and immigrant alike.
Don't pass stupid discriminatory laws such as a burka or minaret bans that targets a specific group people and only feeds into extremist attitudes.
The idea of 'nation' and 'nationalism' in Europe is a new concept. Before the 19th century, Germany, Italy, and the rest of Central and Eastern Europe did not exist an nation states, but as part of dynastic empires. Ironically, the United States is politically older than many modern European nations. The reason why Europeans guard their national identity so closely is because their legitimacy as a nation depends upon it. They fear immigrants will dilute thier identity and will place institutional and social barriers to prevent that from happening.European nations have their own cultures, languages, and norms associated with their specific countries which are centuries old
That is why I say Europeans allows immigration but not at the cost of conceding thier own identity and will put restrictions to ensure that.
You write that over and over again and it remains as false as ever before.
Sizeable Muslim immigration to Europe started MUCH earlier than to the USA and in MUCH higher numbers to MUCH smaller countries and from different ethnic groups than to the USA (many US Muslims are HOMEGROWN). We did not patronize them since day 1, we just didn't.
We have started doing so after decades of non existent betterment.
Do you get it now or will you continue writing that nonsense each time the subject comes up?
According to one poll if i remember well, Wilders will win the elections. It's good.
Last edited by dracon49; 03-04-2010 at 04:49 PM.
Yes use the fear of a minority of a minority to put into power facists, pretty dumb move.
This is not about Europe, it is about the Netherlands. We have been a nation state since 1648.
Which prospered and grew as a global power thanks to its tolerance and inclusion of the outcasts of Europe including Jews, Hugenots, Calvinists, and Puritans from England.
The "jewish question" rings any bells for you? Ah yes, spite for anything muslim. By going down this slippery road I'd not be surprised if politicians started talking about the "muslim question" 2-3 decades from now, if not sooner. I damn well hope I'm just being sensationalistic about this whole fiasco.
Replace tolerance with indifference and you would be more accurate. Btw the Puritans left again because of this indifference towards others and their religions.
A recognized one since that date. As a independant state it started in 1581. The point stands, we are not another germanic federation. There have been organized states in The Netherlands as far as back as the frankish and Frisian kingdoms. We are a very old country. I can accurately trace my own family tree back to pre kingdom of holland times, two to about three centuries back. There is a well established aboriginal population in these lands. But because these natives just happen to be white and ( these days) firm believers in secularism, even atheist, they can't be protected? Is it not our right to protect our own culture and people? Just as it is the right of the turkish or the morrocans in their homecountries.
Judeo-christian values and the seperation of church and state are part of Dutch culture and should remain so, just as islam can remain part of those cultures it is rooted in.
I'm not a PVV voter, but i do agree immigration, especially non-western, is a threat to our country as we know it.
Political factors are of major importance in explaining right wing voting in Western Europe. (Extreme) right wing parties that have favourable party characteristics are much more successful. A charismatic leader, a well-organised party and an active cadre turned out to be more important then other political factors, such as the general anti-immigrant climate in the country. Rightwing parties use clash of civilisation rhetoric to exploit the issue of immigration in order to introduce politics of exclusion. Immigrants are the pictured as the source of high crime rates, unemployment and depletion of the welfare state. Populist leaders use the growing fear of immigration to plea for an exclusion of non western immigrants from the society. They argue that all cultures have the right to protect their cultural identity.
Unemployed people are more likely to vote for an right wing party. Also less well educated, non religious people, younger voters and men are more likely to vote rightwing. Interestingly enough, economically high unemployment levels in a country usually do not raise the overall vote for extreme right parties. There seems to be an inverse effect where a more prosperous country is more likely to favor right wing parties. This could be because people are afraid to lose what they have gained during times of economic prosperity.
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