New Frigates for the Royal Navy - Type 26

[MC Spoilt B'stard]

Nice picture of the Type 26 model! love to see more of it.

[marktigger]

Happyslapper one of the realities that will occur soon is budgets will be reallocated to keep funding up for Afghanistan except of course we pull out then the defence budget will be decimated. We are one step of the IMF getting involved in our economey and look at the 1970's under Labour when the same thing happened. The T26 would be superb if we could afford them same goes for the carriers but the Admirals have taken cut after cut in the hope of Jam tomorrow and that jam was delayed and delayed till now we can't really afford it. Sorry but the reality is that due to poor management by the senior service its going to take 50-100 years to get back to anwhere near SDR levels of capability the only thing that will speed that process up is a major war. The T26 could well end up as an enhanced River class corvette programe to try and stop Somali pirates.

[Little J]

Have to say, I'm with Mark on this one. There no way in hell that we can afford all this new metal.


But any new boats would be nice

[Nepeccel]

Don't be pessimistic! The carriers won't be cancelled because they have been paid for. I hope the guys who deal with the budget realise that giving these Frigates the go ahead will mean they don't need to pay for any new ships for a good few years

[sasman73]

Happyslapper one of the realities that will occur soon is budgets will be reallocated to keep funding up for Afghanistan except of course we pull out then the defence budget will be decimated. We are one step of the IMF getting involved in our economey and look at the 1970's under Labour when the same thing happened. The T26 would be superb if we could afford them same goes for the carriers but the Admirals have taken cut after cut in the hope of Jam tomorrow and that jam was delayed and delayed till now we can't really afford it. Sorry but the reality is that due to poor management by the senior service its going to take 50-100 years to get back to anwhere near SDR levels of capability the only thing that will speed that process up is a major war. The T26 could well end up as an enhanced River class corvette programe to try and stop Somali pirates.

The current financial problems won't affect these ships, they don't begin getting built for another 5 years - impossible to tell what the financial situation will be then. Similarly with those saying about JSF cuts - considering most of the purchase is after 2022 the current situation does not affect them.

We're nowhere near calling in the IMF either.

[Mat_fr]

Don't be pessimistic! The carriers won't be cancelled because they have been paid for. I hope the guys who deal with the budget realise that giving these Frigates the go ahead will mean they don't need to pay for any new ships for a good few years

That's also what we thought in France, hoping for a 17 fremms fleet (4 Horizons class frigates were also planned).

We're going to have 2 Horizons, 11 Fremms, and the 5 existing La Fayette class frigates have been promotted to 1st rank frigates (without any modernization planned, of course...) for the illusion.
and no PA2 (the second aircraft carrier)...

At least we managed to keep 6 SSN in the fleet..

but we get pretty much fu**ed for the rest

[sasman73]

The only real thing that will see the new British carriers cancelled is the future Strategic Defence Review. Labour are committed because its in their constituencies that the jobs are, and although the Tories are non-commital Liam Fox the shadow defence secretary seems to be in favour judging by recent comments here
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...5bn.6168715.jp

The SDR will agree that Afghanistan is the main effort for the next couple of years but after that it'll be interesting to see which way the UK goes. RUSI have put forward 2 ways in which the UK can still be a global player.

1. Global Guardian
2. Strategic Raiding

Global Guardian basically sets us up to do lots more coin wars at the expense of the navy. I'm not sure how many more long land wars the British public would accept though. If the SDR recommends the UK goes for Strategic Raiding (which is basically what the UK has been good at for the last 300 years!) the navy will get its carriers and more escorts, and the army gets cut into a specialist elite force (SAS, Paras, Marines etc) - you could expect to see all forces currently in Germany cut.

[wilmet]

Thing is, both major political parties have promised a comprehensive spending review for after the election in a few weeks time. That's usually the code word for cuts in british political lingo.

Liam Fox, the conservative who would become Secretary of State for Defence has at least made some of the right noises with regards to the navy and safeguarding sea lanes....

* ninjaed

[sasman73]

Yes, but things won't be cut without reason. No government will cut its own influence & power whilst still being capable of sending £13bn for overseas aid. Defence is certainly one of the most wasteful government departments - liam Fox certainly thinks he can find enough cuts without the need to 'cut' projects
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4UxlFEBSZM

If anything gets cut next year i'd think it would be Tranche 3 of Eurofighter and the UK government would pay the fine if it saves money. Or they could be really bold and put the Carriers back on the original build program and save the extra billion in costs that invloved.

[marktigger]

After the election is over all bets are off the parties are saying anything to get elected and will promise what they think they can get away with. After the Election Even Darling is admitting the cuts in spending will be bigger than those made under Thatcher when she had to sort out the mess labour left in the 70's. I would sugest that the only thing saving us from IMF intervention is we have an election and if Labour get re-elected the internation financial markets will pull the plug. It is going to take 10-15 years to get rid of the current deficit then how long will it take to get the economey back onto an even keel and be in the position to afford new military equipment?
It wouldn't be the first time Britain have cut a carrier up for scrap on the stocks!

[sasman73]

I think you're a doom-mongering drama queen The UK has always run on a budget deficit. We can cope with 60bn per year but the government is right to cut it in half within 4 years. Perhaps people are missing this but if the Tories play it clever they can sell off all the state owned bank assets that we paid for, for a decent profit and that's anywhere upwards of 60-100bn if they time it right (unlike Gordon and his gold firesale!)

[marktigger]

For the next 5-10 years I would sugest that defence procurement will be at an all time low. Due to 1. there being no money and 2. to the procurement process being reformed. If we want to keep fighting in Afghanistan (Which the tories and labour will) then procurement will be for COIN not naval warfare as Afghanistan is land locked.

[Barracuda7]

Nice ...more Type 23 for Chile

[Supe]

I agree with Mark.Tigger realistic assessment. . Don't be surprised if you see the decision to build those Carriers gets scrapped. I foresee a contraction in military spending and in most areas of the military itself (not just RN). Fewer ships but also fewer fixed wing aircraft. I'm not sure how long the Brits will stay in Afghanistan. The situation is murky and public opinion though quiet at the moment, could be negatively galvanised down the track. Losing the Dutch and the Canadians is also a blow. The Germans might see this as an out. I see a snowball effect happening. The U.S will end up having to ditch Afghanistan as it will not be able to go it alone (GFC is far from over) due to economic constraints. Expect Afghanistan to become dronesville. Boots on the ground. There won't be any. Every participant will be trying to rebuild their economy and treasuries.

Yes, it's a bleak opinion. But I don't see true political will in the West to ensure victory, certainly not a cost that is publicly tolerable.

[marktigger]

The Tories say they will keep defence spending up but their defence review may reduce what UKDF does in the future and it may be much less. But again political manefestos aren't given under oath so priorities may change.